#63 – Leadership Evolution: From Iron Maiden to Visionary Leader and How You Can Adapt Your Skills For The Future Of Work | Empowerment & Career Advice

[00:00:00] Loree Philip: Hi, and welcome to Daring to Leap. I'm your host, Loree Philip.

[00:00:04] Loree Philip: Ever wonder what it takes to morph from fitting the mold to forging your own path as leader here from our guests, Victoria Pelletier, as she vulnerably shares her own evolution from being called iron maiden to leadership, greatness, and drills down into how we can all adapt to become the leaders.

[00:00:29] Loree Philip: The future of work truly needs. Let's dive in.

[00:00:33] Loree Philip: Victoria is a 20 plus year corporate executive board director, number one selling author and professional public speaker, nicknamed the turnaround queen and the CEO whisperer by her, by former colleagues and employers.

[00:00:52] Loree Philip: Victoria inspires and empowers her team and clients to change mindsets and drive growth in [00:01:00] business, leadership, and culture. As someone who does not subscribe to the status quo, she is always ready for a new challenge, becoming one of the youngest chief operating officers at the age of 24, president by 35, and a CEO at age 41.

[00:01:20] Loree Philip: Welcome to the show, Victoria.

[00:01:23] Victoria Pelletier: Hi there. Happy to be here. Thank you.

[00:01:25] Loree Philip: Yeah. I'm so excited to have you here and wow, what a bio. I mean, you've been places you've been moving and shaken. So I really appreciate your time and your willingness to give back and put in. Your thought leadership into the culture.

[00:01:43] Loree Philip: And so I think what I really want to start with you, Victoria, with that background, talk to me about your story a bit, where did you what were you doing, earlier in your career and how did you navigate some of those challenges along the [00:02:00] way?

[00:02:00] Victoria Pelletier: Yeah, sure. Happy to. And I'll try to do my best to be concise because I feel like I've lived a very, very long life and career.

[00:02:07] Victoria Pelletier: And, even though I'm not even 48 yet. So I started working at age 11, In large part, because I come from a lower socioeconomic home, my adoptive parents were my dad, a janitor, my mom, a secretary. I never had to worry about food or clothing, but that there wasn't much else. There were no school field trips and those kinds of things.

[00:02:28] Victoria Pelletier: So I started working at 11 by 14. I was the assistant manager of the shoe store I worked at. By 16, I took a, an even further leadership role and then when I went off to university, I worked in a bank in their contact center, flexible hours to allow me to go to school. And I got promoted very quickly through the ranks.

[00:02:46] Victoria Pelletier: And so that is how I was able to with At that point, many years of still work experience, although quite young, get recruited to be the chief operating officer for what was an outsourced contact center [00:03:00] company or business process outsourcing BPO for short. And it was a very, very big stretch role for me.

[00:03:06] Victoria Pelletier: I had been leading large scale operations in contact center and with financial services companies and this client had many like banking clients. So it made sense. But it was still a stretch role for me at that point. And with plans to go to law school since I was probably a child I shelved that actually while I was in university, when I got out of university, cause I love the business world.

[00:03:28] Victoria Pelletier: I love leadership. I love the complexities of the business to business world. And I've stayed there ever since.

[00:03:34] Loree Philip: Wow. Yeah, that, that is quite a story. And I know you gave me the highlights. I'm really curious. And you mentioned this, like moving up quickly really even started when you were quite young, right?

[00:03:49] Loree Philip: You started working at 11, assistant manager at age 14, that kind of thing. What do you think for you were some of the [00:04:00] enablers, that others saw in you or that you did that enabled you to move forward in such a fast manner? I think

[00:04:08] Victoria Pelletier: there were a number of things. So first of all, my early years I, I tell my origin story because it's a big part of what is.

[00:04:18] Victoria Pelletier: Caused me to be as driven as I am. So I'm born to a drug addicted teenage mother who was like, very, very abusive to me, was in and out of the child welfare system. I was fortunate to be adopted out of that. At some point I remember my mom saying to me, and my mom's the woman that raised me she said, Tori, you need to do better than us.

[00:04:34] Victoria Pelletier: So she tried to push me from an education standpoint, vocationally, to do more and better. But I'll, I'll tell you, Laurie, they never, my mom never needed to say that to me because being born to the woman that I was and the, the, Several, several years of abuse with her and then just not having a lot with my adoptive family caused me to want to be better than biology or circumstance.

[00:04:56] Victoria Pelletier: So that drive combined with an [00:05:00] extreme amount of resilience, having to overcome trauma and adversity in those years is a big part of it. So that's, that's one. But also too, I you I mean, we see each other in little square boxes, we're talking, but you can't see I'm I'm five foot eight, which isn't exceptionally tall for a woman.

[00:05:19] Victoria Pelletier: But I hit this height by the time I was like 10 or 11. And so when I started working at 11, everyone thought I was much older. I matured exceptionally quickly. And I think given my early years and experience and the fact that I was an only child, I think And I was gifted, and I skipped a couple of grades.

[00:05:37] Victoria Pelletier: I was used to being with adults, so again, I was given, the opportunities, in large part, because of how I looked and the experience I had and the way in which I communicated and engaged with people. And then I would say there was another dynamic around that given kind of the, like the complexities that came with like the trauma that I'd experienced to some extent it [00:06:00] hardened me and there was, I always wanted to feel like I was in control of my situation because so much of my early life hadn't been.

[00:06:06] Victoria Pelletier: Work for me was a place where I felt I had significant control in how I performed. In the skills that I learned. So actually when I worked for the bank through university, even though I was full time student, I ended up getting like my mutual funds license, my securities license. I was taking lots of different education to do better and get promoted at the bank.

[00:06:28] Victoria Pelletier: So the ability to have the skills, have an incredibly strong work ethic and understand how success was measured and therefore perform to that level is a big part of why I think I was successful. And the last thing I'll say before turning it back to you is confidence. I am not a fan of the whole fake it till you make it.

[00:06:46] Victoria Pelletier: Except when it comes to confidence, I was not inside at all, but I showed up as though I was and confidence is often equated to competence, rightfully, wrongfully, so, [00:07:00] but I think a combination of all of those things is what allowed me to propel as quickly as I did.

[00:07:05] Loree Philip: Yeah, there's so much there.

[00:07:08] Loree Philip: And I think out of all of it the, the confidence, the resiliency, the work ethic. I mean, it all combines into this magical equation. And then fast forward year. Want your CEO at the age of what was it? 25. Is that right? 24, 24. Okay. Talk to me about that because, when you step in a role of that size at that age in what I'm, assuming is there weren't.

[00:07:45] Loree Philip: Anybody else on the leadership team under the age of probably 40 and then there were probably hardly any, if at all, none other females on the leadership team. So a low [00:08:00] number. How did you manage to step into that role with confidence?

[00:08:06] Victoria Pelletier: So this was, this was a little bit of the confidence, fake it till you make it.

[00:08:09] Victoria Pelletier: So I, I stepped into that. I'm not a huge fan of, I'm talking about, Oh, actually it's, it's even escaped me the, around some of the insecurities. We, we were talking about earlier imposter syndrome, see, I don't even, I don't even like it. So I was trying to leave my mind. I do think that's probably the best way to describe what I felt like stepping into that role.

[00:08:32] Victoria Pelletier: I knew that I had deep, deep operational experience. In contact centers with the types of clients that they had, which were many, many of which, but not all were, were banking clients. So I, I needed to lean into the things I knew I did well. So that gave me some of the confidence I needed. But then I also had to get.

[00:08:52] Victoria Pelletier: Good at recognizing how much I needed to lean on team members who had experience in the functional areas I did not to that point, I had not [00:09:00] led technology teams, HR teams, and business to business sales or client management teams. So I needed to get comfortable with finding the right people or leaning on people that might've already been in those roles that had that expertise.

[00:09:13] Victoria Pelletier: And. I also, I'll say in the wrong way this great degree of confidence that showed up. Wasn't a way that I'm probably, I would say that I'm maybe proud of today. And in fact, I think it, it impacted the way in which I was perceived by my team. You are right, Lori, I was the only woman at the executive table and I was the youngest by probably close to two decades.

[00:09:38] Victoria Pelletier: for sure. And to add another element to that, I'm part of the LGBT community. At the time I was married to a woman, I now happen to be married to a man and a brand new mother, by the way. So you add that all into the mix. I felt like I needed to show up a very certain way. So no, I didn't have all the confidence I need, but I put on a great face.

[00:09:58] Victoria Pelletier: I put on a mask, all [00:10:00] business. All the time, I'm not going to show you that I'm vulnerable. I'm definitely not going to talk too much about emotions. And so I found sadly, a few years later that I got a nickname as the Iron Maiden. I've been you, you mentioned on my bio, I am known as the turnaround queen.

[00:10:14] Victoria Pelletier: I'm very comfortable at taking distressed or underperforming businesses and turning them around. I, in my early years, I probably did that a little bit more by having team members fear me than want to follow me. And so I had to make some shifts. And a lot of that meant. Being really self aware and reflective and I can look back on it now and I know I was showing up that way because I was the only in the room and there was was significant insecurity in skills and experience I had despite the fact that I came with a lot to the table.

[00:10:44] Victoria Pelletier: But it wasn't. I had to look at the woman that stared back at me in the mirror, and that wasn't the kind of leader I would want to work for. And so I needed to be what I refer to as strategically intentional about changing the way in which I not only showed up, it was perceived, but actually the way I was actually operating.

[00:10:59] Loree Philip: [00:11:00] this story is so powerful because I think, whether we're the person showing up into that leadership role, a little scared. And so you put on a really thick skin and a different persona than probably would look like to have, but you feel like this is how it's going to have to work if you're going to get the kind of results that you want and people to listen to you and respect you.

[00:11:27] Loree Philip: And so. It's either that's you or you've seen other leaders acting this way. And, and there is a bit of compassion for both ourselves and other people that are in the situation that, that we need to feel because it is not. From a place typically of, bad intention, or I think a lot of people in this situation just haven't grown up into that leader that they're [00:12:00] meant to be, that they want to be.

[00:12:02] Loree Philip: What helped you, and you talked about being intentional, but what really helped you get the courage to be intentional, to be more vulnerable, to open yourself up and take off that iron. Outfit, mask, whatever, and, and, and become the leader that you are today.

[00:12:24] Victoria Pelletier: I, I think it was a number of factors. I mean, one, it was a slap in the face to learn my nickname.

[00:12:32] Victoria Pelletier: And there was a conversation that came just a few months afterwards, where again, it was reinforced that it was a colleague and I talking that she didn't think, I talked about crying in a movie theater on the on the weekend prior, and she just kind of looked like at me with Incredulous thinking and said to me, I, Vic, I thought you'd laugh at people who cried at movies.

[00:12:50] Victoria Pelletier: It was like those two things within a matter of months that that was the slap in the face of a whole it's not who I am. My best friend is nicknamed me turtle, very tough exterior. [00:13:00] I am exceptionally resilient, but inside I'm still actually incredibly soft and mushy. And I wasn't letting that out.

[00:13:06] Victoria Pelletier: And so one, it was, the that slap in the face too. It came with an incredible amount of. Self reflection, and awareness around why it was showing up that way. And it wasn't all because I was young and the only woman, some of it was deep seeded insecurity and the fear of being rejected, right?

[00:13:25] Victoria Pelletier: That goes back to my youth. And so I knew that. And. And a little bit to your point, I saw how other leaders I had worked for performed and at work, and none of them were talking about emotions or being the kind of leader that I would say that I now am. And so that intentionality meant I needed to get really comfortable with a few things that made me highly uncomfortable.

[00:13:50] Victoria Pelletier: And some of that was starting to talk about Emotions and starting to be vulnerable. But I did it on a very small scale at first. And I realized like how [00:14:00] incredibly powerful it was in building the connection with other people. Trust with other people. And I started to see that as I did that, my, like the relationship and the dynamics changed and this team that would have feared me would now want to work with me and follow me.

[00:14:17] Victoria Pelletier: And so by taking little baby steps of like on a one on one basis, showing more emotion and vulnerability, it started to open my, the aperture a little bit wider and wider until I got comfortable doing it on now I do it on public stages. Yes. So there's a great deal of confidence and comfort doing it now that wasn't there before.

[00:14:37] Victoria Pelletier: But I will say that, that notion of being really strategic around the actions you're going to take, the language you're going to use, being intentional about doing it and consistent about doing it. Is what has been much more transformative in how I show up and, and, and who I am as a leader.

[00:14:53] Victoria Pelletier: And really that courage to look in the mirror and do that reflection is so important. [00:15:00] And it's also the scariest, hardest thing that we can do, right? It's so much easier to push it aside or to create a story around it, or kick, Kick it under the rug and so just that work in particular and I was going to ask you about.

[00:15:18] Loree Philip: The, the results, right? And you already started to talk about that, right? People, your relationships improve people wanted to To, to follow you all of these things improved as you shifted. So it wasn't so much that, sometimes we feel like if we're, if we're more soft around the edges, that people walk all over us, that we can't command the room that we can't, there's a lot of assumptions that, that it is not the best, better path yet, when you.

[00:15:50] Loree Philip: Have the courage to do it and you have here's a great example and you've seen all the positive results from that shift.

[00:15:58] Victoria Pelletier: Well, the 1 thing I was going to say is [00:16:00] actually, I think I am actually more naturally. I think I found this good balance. I am. I am a confident leader. I am a leader who doesn't shy away and never have from the really difficult conversations of being radically candid.

[00:16:13] Victoria Pelletier: That in part also got me the Iron Maiden name, but that is actually innate in who I am. So today I might be called the B word and or be told that I'm aggressive versus assertive. But the balance of at the right moments that like incredible amount of empathy and display of emotion, help balances what is actually innately someone who's incredibly driven and doesn't shy away from those conversations.

[00:16:40] Victoria Pelletier: But again, figuring out how to have this balance has helped tremendously.

[00:16:45] Loree Philip: Yeah. Thank you for bringing in that nuance. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about really understanding yourself. At such a deep level that you can bring forward your authentic qualities and gifts and style [00:17:00] in such a way that, that you can use it both you can use that assertiveness and that realness and, and also bring in the empathy and the compassion.

[00:17:13] Loree Philip: And so and that works for you and other people would have a different style that was perfect for them that will be. Most effective. I'm curious, Victoria, I had read and in your, some of your background information that you, you do some presentations around like the future workforce and what the future workforce is looking for and what they need and some of these trends.

[00:17:39] Loree Philip: And I know, my audience aren't companies looking to shift how they approach their workforce, but they're people that work in companies. And so where, where. Are you seeing the need for leadership going, or what are the types of things that are shifting in what? employees want, [00:18:00] what, what the future looks like from a workplace perspective.

[00:18:04] Victoria Pelletier: I it's funny cause I've actually rebranded a talk that I do from the future of work to the future is now because the reality is it's here. It's here. It's here now. And leaders need to think about doing things very differently. I think COVID is what like shocked everyone into reevaluating what was important to them when there became no separation between Work and home as we worked out of our homes.

[00:18:29] Victoria Pelletier: And so what I see is this shift to, both employees and consumers wanting to buy from or work for companies that are aligned with a purpose that is connected to their own value system. And so as. Leaders when you're an entry level employee or even in the mid, mid level, sometimes it's hard to understand how the work you do contributes to the overall purpose of the organization and the mission that they've set out in terms of how they're going to solve [00:19:00] problems or create great products and services for their, their customers.

[00:19:04] Victoria Pelletier: So a big part of it is. Figuring out how to speak to purpose and get that connected to the core for individuals. I think that's one part of it too, is recognizing a very different way of looking at talent in the workforce and thinking more discreetly about skills that are required. Because over the last year or 18 months, as we hear about chat, GPT and generative AI and more and more automation.

[00:19:27] Victoria Pelletier: How we do work is shifting and at a pace like we've never dealt with before. So we need to be looking at the skills that are required and much more of them now are the human centric skills. What gets left behind in a lot of these companies is the complex problem solving and innovation and dealing with exception management and customers.

[00:19:47] Victoria Pelletier: You're looking at a very different skill set. So it's building that. Also being what I refer to as a whole human leader. And this is that the shift around the kind of leaders we just talked [00:20:00] about, my own experience. And so that means not a trade off for strong performance, but that we balance it by recognizing that employees and ourselves as leaders show up as whole humans.

[00:20:11] Victoria Pelletier: We can't park the horrible experience or weekend that we had at the door. Some of that's gonna come in, so recognize. How do we deal with the whole human that sits in front of us? How do we be empathetic? How do we be vulnerable? How do we be authentic? And how do we be transparent in our communications to build trust?

[00:20:27] Victoria Pelletier: So being that kind of leader is very different, but I'll tell you, I have a a a Gen Xer and one that's I don't know. They're almost 24 and soon to be 20.a millennial, I should say. And I think the other one might be on the border of being a Gen Z. But they're looking for something very different.

[00:20:45] Victoria Pelletier: Even me, I'm the Gen X, or even me, I would want to work for a very different kind of leader than the boomers who were used to something very different before. So I think it's a combination of all of those things coupled with some others, but those are kind of the big things around how we look at like workforce and [00:21:00] expectations today.

[00:21:01] Victoria Pelletier: Hmm.

[00:21:03] Loree Philip: Yeah. I'll, all of that, and you just went through so much, but all of that, I mean, big heavy topics. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There wasn't a thing on your list that stuck out as didn't feel quite right to me, and I, I, I can be quite intuitive where I'm like, yeah, you're right, this, yeah, you're right, this, but just if we went down the list.

[00:21:26] Loree Philip: We could find so much to back that up, obviously, but it's shifting. And the question is, how quickly are work, places of work companies going to shift to accommodate it? And also, what can we do as individuals to either from, as a leader, Or even as an employee in how we approach work and what we get trained on, if you're looking for higher education or something to keep your skills fresh.

[00:21:59] Loree Philip: And [00:22:00] so, if we start with just. Being aligned to a purpose and a vision and a passion at the get, at the starting point, you hit the nail on the head for me, because it was COVID that knocked some sense into me somehow, and all of a sudden I had this itch to. To have more in my career, something more meaningful.

[00:22:22] Loree Philip: And I left a 16 year career at a, at a big, huge company Boeing to go pursue it. And at this, in the same year, McKinsey, the consulting firm, had released a woman in the workplace study, and the title of it was called The Great Breakup, and one of the themes was that women were leaving at a record pace, and they were leaving to go get what they wanted at other employers, and a big part of that was You know, alignment with values alignment with purpose.

[00:22:59] Loree Philip: And some of [00:23:00] the other things, like balance and all that kind of opportunities, but that 1, I think you're right is now is for sure now. And and what was what's cool about it is that employees are speaking with their feet and they're moving over. And so, so there's that 1 and then, I really like this, whole person leadership approach.

[00:23:25] Loree Philip: And we did already talk about that a little bit when we're talking about your changing leadership style, but I do think it's more important moving forward. And then what was the, there was a, Oh, the AI and all that

[00:23:38] Victoria Pelletier: stuff. Yeah.

[00:23:39] Loree Philip: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the, the, that one is interesting because I think if you could go through the list of Of areas, because I think what what we can do as individuals is look at, okay, what kinds of things.

[00:23:54] Loree Philip: Are AI going to kind of take a weight and so what's left and [00:24:00] what, what can I, get better at so that I have the skill sets that are going to be required that are gaps for some of these companies, like you said, a client facing, you had mentioned problem solving, you had mentioned some other areas.

[00:24:15] Loree Philip: What were some of those areas again, Victoria, I know you went through them already.

[00:24:20] Victoria Pelletier: Yeah, well, I mean, there's, there's functional or technical skills that are evolving and changing and we need, and so we need both. So what I'm saying is, I mean, the, the job we do, the function we do is changing rapidly. So I would encourage employees to recognize like you're the CEO of your career, so do not wait for your leadership.

[00:24:39] Victoria Pelletier: To build a development path for you, you need to do that for yourself. And that you do want to be connected to the strategy of the business or the industry you're in, but the skills you need to do the job, the technical or functional skills are changing rapidly. So make sure you're trying to be, if not ahead of the curve, right with it.

[00:24:56] Victoria Pelletier: And you're learning those new skills. So, so I hadn't talked about that before, [00:25:00] but that, that is important. Critical. And so the tech types of technology stacks and things like that, all of that is changing. So those are the functional technical skills, but the much of how we're seeing the work change is for the work that isn't being automated, that isn't moving not only offshore in many cases, but heavy, heavy amount of op automation.

[00:25:24] Victoria Pelletier: What gets left behind. Is the more human skills. I don't like to refer to them as soft skills because they're actually in many cases, very, very difficult skills and it's a complex problem solving. So one thing AI is not good at currently is detecting anomalies. So for I was, I was actually at dinner with an AI expert.

[00:25:47] Victoria Pelletier: He owns a firm and he was like talking to a number of us about this. So if you look at a chest x ray, it would be great at detecting one thing, one thing within it, but not anomalies for different things. It might be looking for one particular [00:26:00] element. So it's not good at that.

[00:26:01] Victoria Pelletier: And it's not good at causation. And there are the two things that really, really needs to improve on. Well, that's where humans come in. So that kind of complex problem solving and innovation isn't, can't currently be taught to those systems. They're all working on it. And what is left behind in terms of the kind of work we do is engaging with other humans.

[00:26:24] Victoria Pelletier: Our peers, our customers, our clients. And again, when we're doing that, it's usually what I'm going to refer to as exception management. If you think about, if you're in a finance function of doing invoices and things like that, a lot of that gets system generated is completely automated. What gets kicked back are the exceptions when things go wrong.

[00:26:44] Victoria Pelletier: And so you need to, again, problem solve for that, and you need to communicate with those that are impacted. So it's those kinds of skills. And sadly, actually, Laurie, that for me, I, I, I like contributed to, I think it was a Forbes or a fast company article. I can't remember, but a year or so ago, what they don't teach you [00:27:00] when you get your MBA.

[00:27:01] Victoria Pelletier: And it's these kinds of skills. They're teaching you how to read P and L like financial statements and how to look at like good target acquisition companies and all those sorts of things. These things that are more and more important.

[00:27:14] Loree Philip: You're right, Victoria. I got, I have an MBA and, the, they don't teach you whole human leadership.

[00:27:24] Loree Philip: They, they don't teach you. It is about just the business mechanics. Right. and some of the stuff is shifting so fast. And Giving these presentations and speaking to the, to companies and how do you advise them to, it's easy to say, okay, we need more whole human leadership, or we, we need to go do this or that.

[00:27:50] Loree Philip: How do we, what are some of the things we can go do? If there are listeners on this podcast that are, that have teams that are leaders [00:28:00] what are just a few things that they can start doing today that can get closer to really thinking forward and, have that whole human approach,

[00:28:09] Victoria Pelletier: I. I mean, critically important and not just for people who lead teams.

[00:28:15] Victoria Pelletier: And by the way, I think you are a leader regardless of title or heart hierarchy. We all, our voices, our power. I just want to say I think everyone needs to view themselves as leaders in their own right within the organizations, but for those who do. Lead hierarchical teams, but also I just think it's about how we engage in business and I often lead commercial teams.

[00:28:36] Victoria Pelletier: So sales and those that own client relationships at the end of the day, and one of the most foundational elements that everyone can do when we think about how to improve business from a whole human perspective is recognizing people do business with people they like and they trust. Therefore, they want to do business with.

[00:28:53] Victoria Pelletier: And so the simplest way is just build authentic [00:29:00] relationships from a place of care and compassion and not greed. There's there's a book on networking by Keith Ferrazzi called Never Eat Alone. And in he talks, he talks about building his network from a place of generosity and not greed.

[00:29:14] Victoria Pelletier: And I just think about that. That's how we should just be building relationships, period. So whether it's the teams you manage, the colleagues you need to interact with, or prospective clients or customers, we should be engaging in that way. And to build trust and relationship comes with, again, going back to being vulnerable, opening up elements of our stories we're willing to share, talking about things that make us emotional so that we build connection with others.

[00:29:40] Victoria Pelletier: Everyone can do that. It's not comfortable. As I said, it wasn't for me. Now it's like super innate. It's who I am. Like I'm talking to strangers in an elevator but that wasn't always. And so I think one foot in front of the other is progress. And so just a baby step, like just start to have some of those dialogues and look a little bit differently at the way we build, connections with [00:30:00] people and much more from just a place of building relationship with them.

[00:30:03] Loree Philip: Yeah, this is a really good tip. And you already hit on one that I know works really well. And that is, to be open and vulnerable with other people through prior experiences, stories, something that's real and people can sense that realness and it comes through so authentically and you build that trust and rapport so quickly.

[00:30:27] Loree Philip: The other thing that I know. That works really well to build those relationships quickly is just through the power of being a really good listener actually hear what the other person is saying and soak it in and be there for them. And it's that also is a practice. It's something that they teach us in coaching school, like, how to listen, because you can, you can really hear a person.

[00:30:59] Loree Philip: When you [00:31:00] tune into them and it's, it seems so simple, but if you think about where we're at right now in technology and the fast pace and my phone's buzzing at me, and I've got a to do list this long and I'm thinking about this. Are you really listening to that person? Yeah, that it's right in front of you.

[00:31:20] Loree Philip: Do you have everything put aside? And it's so powerful when you can sit right in front of them, hear what they have to say, and make them feel like the most important person in the room, and it's It's actually, it's so powerful yet so simple. I don't know. Is that a tool that you also leverage as well, Victoria?

[00:31:40] Victoria Pelletier: Absolutely. Except my husband will tell you that I don't, cause he's probably, he's one of the few people that I don't always do that well with so, and I used to be much better at multitasking and hearing multiple conversations when I was younger and so sitting and like I'm chatting like on my phone responding to something and he's talking to me.

[00:31:58] Victoria Pelletier: So he will tell you I'm not always [00:32:00] very good at that, but I do agree with you, Lori, that is. Critically important. And that's why, and he jokes, he's like, why is it? You can like not respond to me for hours when you're out at a dinner with someone or whatever. And it's because I'm doing exactly what you're saying.

[00:32:11] Victoria Pelletier: Like I'm completely tuned into that individual, engaged in that conversation and listening very actively to what they're sharing.

[00:32:19] Loree Philip: As we, as we start to close out Victoria, I just, I'd love for you to share any last closing, thoughts or ideas to the listeners who are her women in their careers, they've been in for at least 10 years, a lot of the time, and they're just kind of trying to navigate.

[00:32:37] Loree Philip: The next steps for them, what kind of advice do you have for them moving forward?

[00:32:42] Victoria Pelletier: I, a couple of things I'd say beyond what we've spoken about today. And one is that I sign a lot of my social media posts off with two hashtags. One is unstoppable and the other one's no excuses, but the unstoppable one is the one that like, I would tell your listeners, like you were the CEO [00:33:00] of your career.

[00:33:01] Victoria Pelletier: You decide how far and wide you may or may not want to go, and don't let others decide that for you. So, and don't for many of whom, as you described, maybe they're 10 ish years into their career, and I imagine around that age, we're starting to think about children, for those who want them, that is.

[00:33:19] Victoria Pelletier: There's a lot that comes with that. And so, a lot of people will ask me, how do you have it all? I hate the question, personally. But it's for me, it's around, I make choices. This is around this no excuses. I believe where there's conviction, there's capacity. But those choices mean so for me, when my children were much younger, that I tried to leave the office when I was going into physical offices to be home, to have dinner with them, but it also meant that the moment they went to bed, I was back online for several hours.

[00:33:48] Victoria Pelletier: I'm a fitness fanatic, so it meant after those hours of work, I then made sure I got to bed. I'm not on Netflix or whatnot so that I can get enough hours of sleep so I could wake up at 5 30 in the morning to get to the gym. So I tell [00:34:00] your listeners like you're the CEO, you chart your course, whatever that's going to look like, you be unstoppable and find ways to create the capacity for the things that you want.

[00:34:09] Victoria Pelletier: So you know, that's a big one. And the other is the importance of personal brand. I. See too many people who think that by doing a good job for their leader, for their company, that that's just going to get them promoted. You need to do so much more than that. And a lot of self promotion and and, and it's more than what you do, who you are going back to human, the humanities of this, who are you as a, as a person, what storytelling, what interests, values, passions.

[00:34:40] Victoria Pelletier: Again, you're creating connection with people. How do you stand above your peers or competitors and then also like legacy and impact. And think those are the four things I think are, are how we should be thinking about brand. And I think it's really important to be built. I tell my, my older son, who's just come out of college, how important it is to be starting it now.

[00:34:59] Loree Philip: [00:35:00] Start it now and then you will pivot and it will evolve over time as you grow. But that's been also another critical element to my career success is having built a very strong brand around not just performance, but who I am as a human. What do I stand for values, et cetera. Yeah, it all that stuff there is so powerful.

[00:35:19] Loree Philip: Be, being the CEO of your career is, is a theme on our show because even when I talked to female CEOs that, that got to that CEO spot and realized that they didn't actually. Want to be there. And they just went there because society told them that was where they should be. And they got there and realized their passion was someplace else.

[00:35:43] Loree Philip: So it's about taking the time to really understand for yourself, what do you really want and why? And the personal brand. Oh, my goodness. I'm still working on mine, but it's an intentional practice to sit down and think through [00:36:00] all of the stuff that you listed, what you stand for, how you're going to show up, what you want what you want people to say about you, all the things, and it's not just going to happen on its own.

[00:36:12] Loree Philip: Well, there will be an opinion of you that happens on its own. Own, but you get to control the narrative when you decide that you're going to craft this brand for yourself. Well, thank you so much for this amazing conversation. I'd love for you to share with the audience how they can connect with you and learn more about you and your work.

[00:36:32] Victoria Pelletier: Well, I have a website, which is just my name, Victoria dash or hyphen Peltier. com. So you can. See some of my speaking on there, the keynotes that I deliver, a lot of the writing that I do, the books that I've written, but also for people who would prefer to connect with me on other platforms like LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook, they can do from there as well.

[00:36:51] Loree Philip: Great. Well, thank you again. And I really appreciate you walking the talk, your [00:37:00] vulnerability came out in this conversation, your willingness to talk about. A leadership style that you're not proud of, but it's going to help somebody else see, especially if they're in that spot right now and it's okay.

[00:37:14] Loree Philip: And you can evolve and you can choose to be the leader you're meant to be. So thank you for that, Victoria. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

[00:37:22] Loree Philip: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you've enjoyed it, I would love for you to subscribe. If you're already a subscriber, don't forget to share the podcast with a friend.

[00:37:34] Loree Philip: Make sure to tune in next week. We will be speaking with Raina Bach about how to bring more joy into your career. I hope you have an amazing week. It's your time to shine. Bye.