#86 – Transformational Self-Care: A Former Tech Leader’s Blueprint to Prevent and Recover from Burnout

[00:00:00] Loree Philip: Hi, and welcome to Daring to Leap. I'm your host, Loree Philip. Are you struggling to balance high achievement with self care in the relentless pace of today's world? Join us as former tech leader turned burnout coach Hannah Tackett unveils her simple yet transformative steps to prevent and recover from burnout, empowering you to reclaim your energy and authenticity.

[00:00:28] Loree Phillip: Let's dive in.\

[00:00:29] Loree Phillip: Hannah, a former tech leader with 16 years of experience now dedicates herself to coaching against burnout. Having navigated her own career, halting burnout, she empowers high achieving women to recognize and overcome the pressures of professional life.

[00:00:47] Loree Phillip: Through her expertise, she guides others to reclaim control and maintain wellbeing in their careers. Welcome to the show, Hannah. Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. Yes. Yes. [00:01:00] Thank you. I it's an honor to have you here. And as I mentioned earlier in our conversation, we have talked about burnout before on this podcast, and I just feel like it's such an important and relevant topic for us to talk about.

[00:01:15] Loree Phillip: And so I'm so excited to have this conversation and hear more about. You and your background, if you could start us off by maybe telling us. About your career journey and you mentioned in your bio that you had overcome or dealt with burnout yourself. And so what really was it going on with you in your career that made you decide to, I don't know if shift is the right word because I know you're still working on what you're doing now, but like focus some of, some of your precious time and attention to support other women with burnout.

[00:01:52] Hannah Tackett: Absolutely. Well, it. It really was like a life changing hitting bottom kind of a moment. But, essentially I would [00:02:00] I'm a mom of two young kids at the time. They were babies and, a relatively new a couple of year old marriage. And I'd been in my career, I think at that point, I don't know how many years, so I'm not going to give a number, but a while, a while in tech.

[00:02:15] Hannah Tackett: And it got to a point where I I couldn't get out of bed. And I didn't know what was wrong with me, like, I just didn't get up and I was terrified because I'm responsible for paying the bills, taking care of my children, managing my relationship. Like, I didn't want my life to fall apart and I felt like it was beginning to fall apart because I couldn't show up because I was in bed and I couldn't get into the doctors, did all the things and essentially it just came back like nothing was wrong with me.

[00:02:45] Hannah Tackett: And so that scared me and it was a pretty eye opening experience. And then on my journey out of that, I, I guess, developed a passion and from talking to women at conferences and all around and seeing [00:03:00] how common it is and how many of us. A wall or on our way to hitting a wall or who are just kind of slogging through it and struggling and feeling miserable.

[00:03:09] Hannah Tackett: I'm like, that's just going to be your life from now on. And I realized like, there's, there's a need for women to have more support and more, light at the end of the tunnel, a guide out of this because it can be done and you don't have to necessarily burn down your career or, or your life to, to make the changes.

[00:03:28] Hannah Tackett: Although you can, so, so yeah, so I think that through my own experience, I was like, I need to help others with this. It's just, it's just too important not to. And and seeing my clients be able to leave behind the dread and move forward in their lives with excitement and passion and energy has been truly, truly just.

[00:03:48] Hannah Tackett: Wonderful. It's been wonderful.

[00:03:50] Loree Phillip: Yeah, thank you for sharing that, Hannah. It's, I can't even imagine being at a point like that. Like, I can't, not being able to get [00:04:00] out of bed. I mean, and, and so what I've noticed in my conversations with others and through my experience is interesting that some people there's this almost like a spectrum of where you can be like, for example, burnout.

[00:04:14] Loree Phillip: And when you get to some people, it takes them to get to this point where I cannot literally get out of bed. And I bet if I and I'm going to ask you now, there were probably very clear signs and signals before that point, but, you kind of push through. Likely listening to before you got to this.

[00:04:35] Loree Phillip: Okay. I got to figure this out. Right. And so what, what were some of the things going on that, that caused you to get to that point of

[00:04:42] Hannah Tackett: burnout? Absolutely. So burnout. I think of it as an expression of stress, of unmanaged, unhealthy stress levels. And so the early signs and symptoms are similar to stress, right?

[00:04:53] Hannah Tackett: So maybe the first couple of things that you'll be noticing is maybe you're feeling irritable or anxious, you're having insomnia, [00:05:00] there's poor concentration, maybe you're having some, some tummy troubles, headaches, migraines. Are all kind of signs that your body and your heart are giving you that you're things need to shift in your life.

[00:05:12] Hannah Tackett: And then I feel like that if it is not taken care of can move into like the second phase of burnout, where you start to feel that cynicism and that detachment, where you're. Beginning to check out, right? So there's a loss of enjoyment, there's pessimism isolation, procrastination, maybe there's chronic lateness and the key here though is resentment.

[00:05:36] Hannah Tackett: Like when you start to feel that resentment whether it's towards your job, your spouse, your family, feeling like the obligations that you have in your life are just you're trapped by them. Those are the big, big red flags that please stop and like shift it before your body forces you to.

[00:05:52] Hannah Tackett: And then there's that third stage where you just keep on going and keep on going and all of this stress and loss of enjoyment and pessimism [00:06:00] and isolation build up. And then you start to experience that feeling like you're ineffective or like you're not performing and that's huge because it impacts our confidence and we all know this is absolutely precious.

[00:06:15] Hannah Tackett: So when you feel that hopeless or like you feel like you've got poor performance or, the imposter syndrome is just eating you alive, that loss of confidence is like what I think of as like that last. Phase of burnout. And I mean, and it looks different for everyone. Like my burnout was physical. I mean, like mostly actually experienced all of that before I couldn't get out of bed, but I ignored it all.

[00:06:38] Hannah Tackett: So the wake up call was when I couldn't get up, but you know, like maybe a client of mine, she her burnout looked like dread. So she was getting up, but she could barely, she felt like she was just dragging herself out of bed. She started work every single day. It was like, she felt like she was slogging through a fog with no hope it would ever end and it hit her confidence.

[00:06:59] Hannah Tackett: She's [00:07:00] very capable, intelligent woman, but she felt like she wasn't delivering at work because of this overwhelming dread just pulling her down and she tried to fix it on her own. She took time off, she saw doctors, she saw therapists, she changed the company she was working at. And even shifted her role.

[00:07:17] Hannah Tackett: And so I know that women are, there's different ways to experience burnout and different symptoms and everyone's situation is going to be slightly different because we're all unique individuals. But I think that that, that dread and that resentment and that feeling of being pulled down is, is fairly common.

[00:07:33] Loree Phillip: Yeah, that is really good one to bring up because I think sometimes we just don't really. No, right? I mean, there is this societal pressure and like conformity around this is just what it takes to be at this level in this type of industry or at this big kind of a corporation. You just need to suck it up and do it.

[00:07:59] Loree Phillip: [00:08:00] Right? And so I think there's this point to where we feel like we're failing. If we can't figure out how to navigate that environment and not feel these this type of way, do you resonate with that?

[00:08:13] Hannah Tackett: Absolutely. I feel like the hustle culture and this idea that you have to do it all and do it all yourself, which there's a lot of pride behind that.

[00:08:24] Hannah Tackett: And it's an ideology that I definitely subscribed to. And when we are trying to be super woman, or frankly, we are super woman because we are doing it all. And we get to a point in our careers where you start to feel that resentment and you start to feel drained and you're wondering where your mojo went.

[00:08:42] Hannah Tackett: It's absolutely not a, it's not, you're not failing, it's, it's just that. The way that we're showing up isn't working. And I like to think of like this kind of ties into like, I have this idea of like five success traps that we often encounter on our journey [00:09:00] to success. And, so a lot of those are behaviors, right?

[00:09:05] Hannah Tackett: Things that we can change. And the first one we've probably heard about, which is the people pleasing where you're overworking, you're driven by a need for approval. And you. take on too much just to make other people happy. You don't say no. And then there's the second one is perfectionism, where we want everything to be at a certain standard.

[00:09:26] Hannah Tackett: And all of these have a flip side, right? It's good to have high standards, but being a perfectionist to the point where you're overly critical of yourself, overly critical of your own work, can really tear, tear you down and start to take that energy away from you. And the third is Being a helper, right?

[00:09:43] Hannah Tackett: You see someone in your team needs help, you help them. You see someone at home who needs help, you help them. You're taking care of everyone else at the expense of your own needs. And then there's overachieving, which is the, the minute you get one win, it's like forgotten. There's no celebration.

[00:09:59] Hannah Tackett: You're just [00:10:00] charging onto the next. It's like that checklist mentality. Like I'm getting through the day, getting through the day. Bigger, small, you just keep going. And there's a like I think maybe a lack of celebration, I think, especially as women, we're not taught to brag or celebrate or really own our successes.

[00:10:19] Hannah Tackett: And so that can add up and bring your energy levels lower as well. And then there's the the, being the nice girl, being afraid of saying no, and being afraid of putting up those boundaries because, sometimes the fear is even undefined, like, what are we afraid of? Sometimes we don't even know, but whether it's rejection, job loss or, or anything else the fear of saying no is, is a big part of this that can, can play into it.

[00:10:44] Loree Phillip: Yeah, it's, I resonate with all of those behaviors that turn out to be career traps for sure when you continue to express them in your work. I can clearly see how that could take a person down a rabbit hole [00:11:00] of exhaustion because you're putting so much of your energy, if it's people pleasing perfectionism, helping others, not saying no.

[00:11:08] Loree Phillip: Like, could you imagine how much energy is going out and out and out and out and out? And it's like, it's that saying where you have to fill up your cup before you can Give, right. And so if you just keep giving out of your empty cup, you're gonna fall down. And I'm curious though I, I understand Hannah, you're still leading in tech.

[00:11:34] Loree Phillip: And so the burnout you experienced, it sounds like you were able to navigate out of that. And. S stay, stay within, I don't know if you're still at the same firm, but like, manage it in such a way where you could. Show up differently. How much of it was the way that we show up versus The environment itself, [00:12:00] because I feel like there's, there is a bit of both and obviously there's one that we can control more than we can control the other.

[00:12:07] Loree Phillip: What is your, your feedback on, on, is it me or the environment? Is it both? It's definitely

[00:12:15] Hannah Tackett: both. And. But it was me in terms of choosing to be in that environment to begin with and then staying as long as I did. So the environment itself was chaotic. There was a lack of control, insufficient rewards, lack of community, excessive workload, the typical factors that, In a corporate environment or in, in your own business, if that is going on, you're going to start, it's dramatically increases your risk of burnout, but not everyone burns out.

[00:12:43] Hannah Tackett: Right. So what we see is like, there's going to be people at the company who are fine. They're doing fine. But then this person over here is having the exact same experience as not. And I think that the line or like what the difference is with my approach was the fact that I was doing five people's [00:13:00] jobs.

[00:13:00] Hannah Tackett: It was the fact that I did never say no. The fact that I was afraid of managing my calendar and rejecting meetings. It was a fear of being laid off because being in tech, I've seen thousands, thousands upon thousands of people be laid off and it's awful. It's awful. And so all of that was all together, right?

[00:13:19] Hannah Tackett: A big, muddy mess. And that's often the case with people who are on the road to burnout, struggling with burnout, is it's a mix of all the things, the external and the internal. And, and I did turn it around without quitting my job because I'm a low risk kind of gal. So, and what I found was that the conventional approach to addressing burnout, like take a sabbatical indulging in spa retreats, quitting your job to go turn butter in the woods address the underlying issues.

[00:13:52] Hannah Tackett: So You can just end up repeating it in a different environment, different company, different role. So, but what does work is [00:14:00] taking a holistic view. So examining your career and the culture around your work, as well as your community, your physical health sleep, nourishment, your fears and beliefs.

[00:14:10] Hannah Tackett: And without that comprehensive, holistic, whole person approach it's really hard to achieve the last team results that we're, we're looking for. And in my case, that was the ability, I just wanted to show up every day. I wanted to have energy and what I found was much, much more than that. And so, so yeah, it's external and internal.

[00:14:29] Hannah Tackett: And yeah. There's definitely a path out of it and everyone's path can look a little bit different, but you know, it is holistic. It's the best way.

[00:14:37] Loree Phillip: Yeah, I, I, I wholeheartedly believe in holistic approaches because we can put a little bandaid on something and it's almost like whack a mole the game whack a mole, you're like, okay, I got this one.

[00:14:49] Loree Phillip: This other one pops up. I got this one. You can't really. Get them all at the same time and the game doesn't ever end. And so I'm curious though, Hannah, I know we're all different, but [00:15:00] there's likely some common things that we can do to support ourselves to either get out of burnout or make sure we never get into it in the first place.

[00:15:11] Loree Phillip: What are some of the things that you feel like. Work the best for more, the most, the majority of people in terms of supporting them to get out of, or stay out of burnout.

[00:15:25] Hannah Tackett: Right. So I think that I think of it in four phases. So there's the first phase is authentic alignment, and that's just rediscovering your.

[00:15:34] Hannah Tackett: Values and then there's resourcing energy. So we take a look at what's draining us, what's filling our cups, how are we spending our energy and how can we resource that? How can we get more energy strategically? And then the third is finding our voice. And so negotiating and learning how to speak your own truth and communicating effectively in a way that doesn't [00:16:00] will improve your career and increase your success rather than decreasing.

[00:16:05] Hannah Tackett: And then the last is once you have all that. Extra energy and time, kind of doing that reassessment and saying, well, what do I really want to do with this energy and time and making sure that you are set up to springboard into that your next thing, your, your big vision, your dream.

[00:16:21] Loree Phillip: Yeah, it's, it's.

[00:16:23] Loree Phillip: When you said finding your voice and communicating effectively, what's interesting is you may not think that that would be completely aligned to something to support not being in burnout or getting out of burnout. But what's interesting about it is I was having this conversation with somebody who's very deep in, in, in energy management and wellbeing and all this kind of stuff.

[00:16:48] Loree Phillip: And she was talking about how. One of the things that really can drain us so quickly and the most is being out of your authenticity. Mm hmm, [00:17:00] and I don't think we realize that or talk about it enough. It's kind of this thing where we talk about Well, it's great to be your authentic self And then we stop there and just see it as this beautiful prize Up on the hillside that if I get there, it would be amazing But I don't think people quite understand how much of our energy gets drained not You Being ourself and trying to fit the mold of somebody else in this some other role in this environment.

[00:17:31] Loree Phillip: I'm curious, is that why it was one of the things you pulled into your approach?

[00:17:35] Hannah Tackett: Absolutely. It's the first, and I don't know if it's the most important step, but it's critical in that. Most of us, at some point in our life, we're picking up all this programming and, whether you're trying to meet your mother's expectations, your spouse's expectations, your boss's expectations, there are people around you and you're trying to step up and to what they're imagining who you should be and what you should be for them.

[00:17:59] Hannah Tackett: [00:18:00] And this can go on for decades, decades. And at some point like I know. Myself, I got to a point where I didn't even know what I liked anymore. Like when I burnt out, I was so tired of making everyone else happy. I no longer knew what I wanted. What did I watch on that? Want to watch on Netflix? I had no idea.

[00:18:19] Hannah Tackett: What was my favorite meal? I didn't know what kind of work excited me? What projects did I really want to pursue? Nothing came to mind. I was. a reactive person that was filling everyone else's needs instead of having a really firm ownership of what I'm passionate about, who I am, where I stand, and where I want to go.

[00:18:39] Hannah Tackett: And the reason that is critical is because if you know what you're saying yes to, It's very easy to say no. So once you have your yes, once you have your vision, once you have your dreams, once you have a clear idea of where you're going and what you want, who you are, you can stand in that and you can stand firmly.

[00:18:57] Hannah Tackett: And that's where boundaries really come from. The, the [00:19:00] ability to say no and say no well, I think it's rooted in that confidence in that like you're saying the authenticity.

[00:19:06] Loree Phillip: Yeah. Yeah. I think you, you hit the nail on the head with this because when you were talking about your story and about always saying yes and being afraid to manage your calendar and, not saying all the things about not being able to set your boundaries And my, my, the biggest question I had in my mind was, how did you build the confidence?

[00:19:30] Loree Phillip: To turn that around because it is very easy to tell somebody you need to have boundaries You need to say no you need to do here's the here's the thing you need to go do to set this right But in reality if if you've gone to this point where you can't get out of bed, you know There is something that's missing there and it's, you can't just all of a sudden flip it on and say, okay, well, I [00:20:00] have no fear of getting laid off.

[00:20:01] Loree Phillip: If I decline this meeting, like what, you know what I mean? It just, it is a complete. 180 view of where you need to be. And I completely agree with you is so it can be so powerful when it's rooted in yourself, your values, who you are, your priorities, and you it on a deep level. And if anybody's hearing Hannah saying she didn't know what she wanted to eat or whatever, like I personally resonate with that because.

[00:20:36] Loree Phillip: Especially as women, we spend so much of our time, we can, being there for others, our kids, our family our spouses, our careers, and it's very outwardly focused, and we don't, we lose that connection with ourselves and what we want. We forget to even ask ourselves. It's very much easier. Oh, well, my kids want this for dinner, so I'm gonna make that [00:21:00] or like, I don't want to rock the boat.

[00:21:02] Loree Phillip: So let's go do this. That kind of thing. So I, I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing that because I'm sure at the time. I mean, that's not an easy thing to recognize. It takes a lot of vulnerability. To shine a light on that and realize I need to dig deeper and it's not, it's not as easy as saying, here's my five point plan, like, so I, I was talking a lot, you can what are your thoughts on that, Anna?

[00:21:33] Hannah Tackett: Right. So, so yeah, so as far as. Building the confidence confidence comes from action and what I find is that part is actually not that hard if you get past the first hurdle, which is realizing that you can actually take enough time to take care of yourself because the biggest. Mindset issue the thing that comes up the most is like, I'm too busy.

[00:21:53] Hannah Tackett: If I drop any of these balls. I stopped doing what I'm doing. I mean, everything's gonna fall apart, right? If I let [00:22:00] somebody else do this, if I delegate, they're not going to do it as well as I can. And it's letting go of that, I think is actually the hardest step, is realizing that you have to let go.

[00:22:10] Hannah Tackett: And enable others to step up. And I think the big, the big shift there is like this identity crisis, right? Like I'm superwoman. I can do it all. I have been acknowledged and praised my entire life for being a top performer. And now I have to let go of doing it all. So I think the important thing there is to shift into a leadership position and think of yourself as empowering and enabling people around you to support you.

[00:22:36] Hannah Tackett: And letting go of the busyness. And I know like you said, easier said than done, like there is so much to unpack there and and so I've, I've put together like a little cheat sheet it's like how to cut slasher hours by 20 percent and it goes into all of those principles and like digs a little deeper because it's, it's a lot to unpack.

[00:22:56] Hannah Tackett: That can really help people step back, [00:23:00] solve that. I'm too busy to even think about taking care of myself situation and carve out that time and space.

[00:23:06] Loree Phillip: Yes. Yes. I, I, I think this is really important because we are stuck in this. I'm too busy. We won't get anywhere. We just won't. There are so many things on our plates.

[00:23:19] Loree Phillip: Would you. Would you tease us a bit at least on what are some of the things like it is possible I love this idea of cutting your work hours by 20 percent As a tangible goal in your experience. Can people do this? Maybe what are a couple things that you could share that that people can look at to implement for themselves?

[00:23:41] Hannah Tackett: Absolutely. So I mean the first We've talked about a lot of them kind of at a high level. So we've talked about getting clear about who you are and what your vision is for your life and where you stand and like taking the first couple steps to get there because I think what people imagine is like, Oh, you have to have a purpose or some [00:24:00] grand existential thing.

[00:24:02] Hannah Tackett: And it's really not that complicated. You can start with just, I like this, I don't like this. That gives me energy that feels like I feel good when I'm doing this, that one sucks the soul out of me and beginning to increase your awareness of how you feel as you're going through your week, as you're going through your day, when you're spending time with specific people places, activities, and really beginning to understand and have that awareness of what's going on.

[00:24:27] Hannah Tackett: in your life and what's filling you up and what's taking that away. And then once you have that, you're like, okay, well, I may not know who I am or what I want, but I know what makes me feel good, at least right now.

[00:24:37] Loree Phillip: It starts

[00:24:37] Hannah Tackett: shifting towards there. And then once you have a, a clear idea of where you're going, then it's learning how to say yes to that, say yes to yourself, say yes to the things that energize you, prioritizing your yes, understanding that you are the linchpin in your life.

[00:24:53] Hannah Tackett: And if you don't take care of yourself, you don't invest in yourself, all the things that you're worried about are not going to happen, right? [00:25:00] Because if you don't take care of you, your body will make you one way or another, like it will go into a halt and stop your world and you'll have to deal with it.

[00:25:09] Hannah Tackett: So it's so much better just to invest in yourself before you get to that point. Or if you're there, you can turn it around. Yes. And then say no. Right. So there's a lot of ways that we can say no without ever using the word no. And this one's a fun one to work with people on in that you can automate.

[00:25:27] Hannah Tackett: So identifying repetitive tasks that can be automated, you can delegate, you can outsource, you can minimize whether that's like making meetings shorter or, condensing activities so that they're more efficient. And then you can eliminate, which is when you turn down unnecessary meetings, requests and obligations.

[00:25:47] Hannah Tackett: So all of those are ways that we can say no. And all of them are very, very effective. So so those are some of the things on that list where there's like specific [00:26:00] scripts and like how tos and and all of that. But just like just to get, kind of get started.

[00:26:06] Loree Phillip: Yeah, I, I think this is really important, even if people are not.

[00:26:10] Loree Phillip: In burnout or on their way to burn out, you can imagine that we're spreading our energy on so many requests. It's like everybody has their own priorities and then they tap you to help them with all of their priorities. And then we forget about, well, what it were, what am I getting measured on? What are my goals?

[00:26:33] Loree Phillip: Well because in reality, what we need to be do is protecting that and focusing our energy on that. And when we. Spread our efforts so thin, we're not good at any of it. We're just right. And so this isn't about just saying no or prioritizing. It's about being more effective in our role and being able to show up in a more powerful way because we know where we're going.

[00:26:58] Loree Phillip: We know what our priorities are. We [00:27:00] know our values. We know where we need to be. And then from that perspective, we can delegate. We could take things off our plate. We could empower others to support us. And I do, I, I do really like that shift in mindset, Hannah, that you mentioned earlier about leading others to support the effort instead of thinking, Oh, I need help.

[00:27:25] Loree Phillip: And so I'm just. Offloading it. It's a different perspective, but it is important because we do need to be able as leaders to delegate. And other people do need things to work on and things that will help bring them up to the next level. And so, yeah, I, I think it all makes so much sense. And, so we say we find a few more hours and now we have time, right?

[00:27:58] Loree Phillip: It's like, okay, nobody can now [00:28:00] say we don't have time. You did the work, you found a few hours. I go, where do we go from here?

[00:28:05] Hannah Tackett: So that depends on where you want to go. And so that's where finding your authenticity kind of comes in and, knowing where you want to go, what your vision is, what your dream is, because those are those hours that you can either invest in that or invest in what you need to be able to show up as your best self, whether that is, I had a client who felt invigorated by When she's knitting, why not?

[00:28:30] Hannah Tackett: So finding scraping in five minutes here and there she's a single mom working in Silicon Valley, like she has no time, so applying the principles. Carving out time for herself, or even just like bringing it in to others when she's waiting or whatnot, just that simple activity of bringing something that she used to enjoy that used to fill her cup that she feels guilty about doing now, because it's not for her job or for her kids, just bringing that [00:29:00] simple thing in.

[00:29:01] Hannah Tackett: Made a huge difference in her energy and her ability to have clarity on where she was going. Mm. Because once the fog lifts, you can see where you want to go and you can get there you'll have the energy to do what you need to do.

[00:29:16] Loree Phillip: Yeah. Yeah. It is, it does feel, counterintuitive for a lot of people, including myself when I'm looking at this, it's like, how is it that I, if I go do this thing that I love for myself?

[00:29:28] Loree Phillip: For even. A tiny fraction of my day, instead of doing my 20 page to do list, how is that going to help me and, you couldn't convince me otherwise, but it's like example after example, after example of people that are outright saying. You will get clarity, you will have more energy, you will just show up as a better human being when you take that time for yourself and do something that energizes you [00:30:00] versus depleting yourself all the time.

[00:30:02] Loree Phillip: Absolutely. And it's like the magic of the universe flows in and so it doesn't have to make logical sense because you are using some of your time. But somehow it expands it because you can be more efficient and I can know what to cut out.

[00:30:19] Hannah Tackett: Yeah, exactly. So there's we all say there's 24 hours in the day and we all have all these things to do.

[00:30:25] Hannah Tackett: The difference is if you are taking that time to get that energy that you need. And that clarity, that 20 page to do list can easily be chopped down to a four page to do list or a two page or a one page. You will be able to get, but you do need to get done faster, better, more efficiently because you are in your optimal space.

[00:30:44] Hannah Tackett: You are energy. I love, I don't know if you've. Read deep work, but you get into that state of flow and also it, I think that being in that space where you are in flow, [00:31:00] when you are excited about your life, when you are in that space, as opposed to being dreading and resentful, you will attract people to you, you will see opportunities that have always been there.

[00:31:11] Loree Phillip: Mm

[00:31:12] Hannah Tackett: hmm. That you couldn't comprehend or see because you were just so enmeshed in the fog. Like I've had clients describe it as like you're pushing a boulder up a hill or like you're waiting like white noise trying to focus and just can't. So all of that goes away and then suddenly there's clarity and you meet the right people at the right time, doors open, you have conversations and the things that were holding you back can be.

[00:31:41] Hannah Tackett: Eliminated and all of that happens when you are in a place where you can receive it.

[00:31:46] Loree Phillip: Mm hmm.

[00:31:47] Hannah Tackett: If you're so buried in misery and dread and exhaustion and fatigue and being too busy if you're too busy to receive an Opportunity to receive help to receive [00:32:00] energy. It's you're gonna miss it Yeah, so that white space and I think of a white space or putting margin in your life giving yourself that spaciousness allows for us to be able to receive things.

[00:32:14] Loree Phillip: Mm

[00:32:14] Hannah Tackett: hmm. to receive help. To be able to receive that serendipity, those connections, those conversations, those things that can open up the most exciting doors.

[00:32:24] Loree Phillip: Mm. Yeah. It's, it's so true. In the space, not only allows you to be able to see things. Externally, like opportunities you mentioned, people supporting you, but it also gives you the space to see yourself and to really tap into understanding what you want.

[00:32:41] Loree Phillip: Because I think some of that busyness too is what distracts us from understanding what our true, priorities are, true desires and what we really want for ourselves. We can't see it because we don't have a space. It's the space to hear ourselves. And so it, it works both ways [00:33:00] and I love it. And I I think that could, would really resonate with somebody out there who could see, like, I have this 20 page to do list.

[00:33:08] Loree Phillip: And what happens is, is when you take this time out, as Hannah mentioned, All of a sudden you can look at that 20 page to do list and realize, have the clarity that these are the three or four most important things that'll really move the needle and the rest is just noise. And I can really see that. And that's powerful.

[00:33:28] Loree Phillip: That is so powerful. Well, I thank you, Hannah, for this beautiful conversation. I'm curious if there's any last words of advice or wisdom you might have for somebody out there that's dealing with burnout right now. That, that. You would love to hear what you, what you have to say. Yeah, absolutely. So

[00:33:45] Hannah Tackett: I think the first thing is, being busy.

[00:33:48] Hannah Tackett: You don't have to be busy to be worthy. So carving out some space to invest in yourself is not selfish. It is critical. It is critical to the well being of your family. It is critical to the well being of your [00:34:00] career. It is critical to your future. And you don't need to be busy all of the time to get what you want out of life.

[00:34:08] Hannah Tackett: White space margin giving us that, that room to breathe is, is incredibly powerful and opens up amazing doors. And so, so yeah, so I do have the that cheat sheet, which kind of goes through the principles and tactical approaches that you can take to get into that space to slash your hours by 20 percent or more, and, and really be able to show up as your best self in your life and carve out that little bit of space.

[00:34:36] Hannah Tackett: To work on you, to, to be you, to invest in you, while still being seen as a top performer.

[00:34:43] Loree Phillip: Yes. Or even better, better than where you're at. Right. And I, I'm sure that's what happened with you, right? Like you turn things around and all of a sudden you're probably doing less, but doing better. Yeah, exactly.

[00:34:56] Loree Phillip: Yeah. I'll for that, Hannah. I'd love for you to share [00:35:00] with the audience where they can connect with you and learn more about you and your work.

[00:35:04] Hannah Tackett: Absolutely. So you can find me at serene success. And the cheat sheet is serene success. net slash pod P O D like podcast and you can find everything you need to kind of go deeper on this work to get more tactical actionable tips and and more support.

[00:35:26] Hannah Tackett: Great.

[00:35:27] Loree Phillip: Well, I thank you for your time. And you're still working as a leader in your field, and I really appreciate you also putting some of your energy into supporting others on this journey that you yourself had dealt with. And, you don't have to do that, but it's, I think it's really making a difference.

[00:35:47] Loree Phillip: So thank you, Hannah. Well, thank you so much for having me on. It was a delight. Thank you.

[00:35:52] Loree Phillip: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you've enjoyed it, I would love for you to subscribe. If [00:36:00] you're already a subscriber, don't forget to share the podcast with a friend.

[00:36:04] Loree Phillip: Make sure to tune in next week. We will be speaking with Shereen Thor about how we can find the courage to follow our passion. I hope you have an amazing week. It's your time to shine. Bye!