#81 – Preventing Collective Burnout: How to Integrate Well-Being into Leadership and Workplace Culture

[00:00:00] Loree Philip: Hi, and welcome to Daring to Leap. I'm your host, Loree Philip. Are you worried about the rising tide of collective burnout and looking to weave well being into your leadership and workplace culture? Stick around as our special guest, Danielle Smeltzer, shares powerful insights on how you can prevent burnout and foster a thriving stress resilient organization.

[00:00:25] Loree Philip: Let's dive in.​

[00:00:26] Loree Philip: Danielle, founder of Awarely Embodied Leadership, is a passionate advocate for trauma informed leadership and progressive workplace well being. Welcome to the show, Danielle.

[00:00:40] Loree Philip: Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, it's so great to have you here and I have so many questions for you We are going to be talking about embodied leadership today, which was mentioned in your bio. I'm so curious about it But first let's talk a bit about your story What were you [00:01:00] doing before you decided to start your own business and focus in, in this area, and how, how did that shift for you?

[00:01:08] Danielle Smeltzer: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. So that was about a year ago and I took the leap away from working full-time. I was working for an international platform co-op, so it was part tech. Clark social impact, and I was leading up the people operations and finance function. So very strategic, high level, lots going on, especially in the pandemic, post pandemic area.

[00:01:33] Danielle Smeltzer: I saw a lot of stress and burnout happening, and that was essentially the. The thing that kind of sparked things for me is when the pandemic hit, what people really needed from me was not all my business acumen and strategy. It was actually all the things I was very personally interested in around workplace well being and trauma informed practices and mindfulness, which was something I'd been pursuing outside of the office.

[00:01:57] Danielle Smeltzer: And then realized that's what actually what people needed. [00:02:00] And that was the shift for me was starting to double down on that. And eventually moving into my own practice was starting awarely embodied leadership on my own.

[00:02:08] Loree Philip: What a cool story, Danielle, I'm curious that kind of a change going from, working for somebody else, getting a salary having an established career that people kind of can see, touch and feel is one thing.

[00:02:26] Loree Philip: And then to switch it to doing your own, starting your own business. How did you navigate that switch for you in terms of like, did you feel ready? Did you feel the fears come up? Like, how did you get the courage to, to take your leap?

[00:02:43] Danielle Smeltzer: No, good question. It's definitely an ongoing evolution. I essentially got to a point in my career where it had been 16 years of straight working since I graduated from university.

[00:02:54] Danielle Smeltzer: And the last 12 years was at the executive level. And I. I was feeling this [00:03:00] misalignment of I no longer wanted to just push, push, push all the time. And I realized that I could have a different kind of impact. By working with a larger group of people and individuals as opposed to just working within an organization and that was the, the big, the big push and catalyst and there was some global timings that happened and kind of coincided with that the world has changed a lot and everyone's dealing with really Interesting things around social discourse and economic pressures and the rise of working remotely.

[00:03:36] Danielle Smeltzer: And it all just coincided into realizing that people need a different level of support. And there's different ways to do that. It didn't necessarily have to be in an organization. So. That was moving to that. So that was like my foundation of, okay, this is my why. But yeah, it's been, it's, there's been ups and downs.

[00:03:53] Danielle Smeltzer: It's a wild journey for sure. I'm certainly doing a lot of different things to support this as well. I don't, I think [00:04:00] it's good to just be honest and transparent that most entrepreneurs are also doing other things to support themselves while they build. So I am doing strategic consulting on the side as well.

[00:04:10] Danielle Smeltzer: And I'm also in school, so there's always a balancing act between all those all those pieces. But yeah, I'm glad I have these foundational tools of awareness of where I'm at and, and, and then making pivots as I go, cause it's, there's so much to learn as I figure this out. Yeah.

[00:04:30] Loree Philip: You sound quite busy.

[00:04:33] Loree Philip: I didn't realize you were also going back to school. My goodness. I'm also

[00:04:36] Danielle Smeltzer: in school. Yeah. I'm in a three year program, and this is a lot of the foundation for how we really started was I started my somatic experiencing practitioner certification and about halfway through a year and a half in now.

[00:04:50] Danielle Smeltzer: And so this is the, the foundational training for a lot of the trauma-informed practices that I have this vision of bringing things that. Typically, you see in [00:05:00] clinical settings, so behind closed doors, and then figuring out how to translate that to bring it into the workplace.

[00:05:07] Loree Philip: Yeah, it is so important because we show up in the workplace so much more than we have opportunity to show up in like private behind closed doors settings, like that you're speaking about.

[00:05:22] Loree Philip: It's so important. So let's switch gears a bit, Danielle. I'm curious about embodied leadership. Could you start off by telling us what's the difference between, like, say, just leadership and embodied leadership? For sure.

[00:05:38] Danielle Smeltzer: So the gap that I really saw throughout my career was this gap between work and well being.

[00:05:43] Danielle Smeltzer: And so we typically approach work and well being in silos. So someone goes to work, they work really hard. And then afterwards they go to a counselor or a health coach, or they go to the gym or go to yoga or whatever it is to make themselves feel [00:06:00] better. What I was really wanting to do was figure out a way to actually shift the way we lead and learn and, and live all at the same time.

[00:06:09] Danielle Smeltzer: And so a lot of the traditional leadership modalities and approaches are very much based on the cognitive, so brain only. So you, you learn, but the piece that's often missing is this integration and embodiment of how does this become part of the way you lead and live in a longer, a longer term sustained way.

[00:06:27] Danielle Smeltzer: And so embodied leadership works with the brain, then the body and the nervous system. So you're actually changing pathways. Of understanding and awareness, and you're working with understanding, like breaking down your own patterns of behaviors and response patterns and what actually happens in the nervous system as you are in the workplace.

[00:06:49] Danielle Smeltzer: Oftentimes, where we just think we're there with our brains, which is not the reality. We're all of these pieces together. So it's looking at a more integrated approach to leadership [00:07:00] and a more sustainable approach to leadership.

[00:07:02] Loree Philip: Yeah, because if we could think about all of the reasons why this is important and all of the reasons that got you to this place in terms of what people are needing, what are some examples or, or things that people are dealing with right now that are kind of clues to maybe I need a little bit different approach?

[00:07:22] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah, I mean, the common thread that I saw was nonstop stress and burnout and, this also has a trickle down effect onto organizations where productivity, I know we don't love that word, but there is a direct correlation between productivity and, and the economy and When people have higher wages, then there's a greater quality of life.

[00:07:44] Danielle Smeltzer: So I also always like to connect those dots for people too. And so I saw this happening all the time and these really innovative, impactful, incredible organizations. But there was, there's that gap between how do we make sure that people can [00:08:00] maintain that level of innovation and commitment and drive while still maintaining wellbeing?

[00:08:05] Danielle Smeltzer: When we have that gap that's where we run into trouble. And so that those were kind of the common themes that I was seeing. I wanted to figure out how to, how to come in between there.

[00:08:16] Loree Philip: Yeah, it, it, I love the vision of it though. Like this idea of, okay, there are, Goals, expectations, some level of stress and productivity required in the modern workplace.

[00:08:31] Loree Philip: And we should also have wellbeing. Yes. Not, or it's like this and right. I mean, obviously there are things we can do to reduce. The, the stress or maybe be more productive or maybe prioritize more on this side of things, but then we can't ignore the well being side of things like how, how am I feeling? How am I navigating this?

[00:08:58] Loree Philip: What is my stress level? Am I [00:09:00] sleeping? Like all the things that, the status quo right now, it feels like that we just, Oh, it just, this is what it is like this is the, this is the environment and either you sink or swim. And what I love is being able to bring in support and tools and ideas to people to say, you know what, it isn't half, it doesn't have to be that way.

[00:09:25] Loree Philip: Right. Yeah. And so, I really do think this is an important focus and I'd love to talk a little bit about some of the elements under embodied leadership that you like to discuss and kind of, let's talk about a few of them. Like, the first one, I understand it to be is this idea of shifting from reacting to responding.

[00:09:50] Loree Philip: I say that it sounds easier said than done, right? Because the reaction is like this instant thing that [00:10:00] happens when we don't have a chance to pause. So talk to me a bit about why it's important for us to shift that and how, how we might start to, to think about doing it.

[00:10:12] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah, and that's all among the basis of the understanding of when we come into the workplace, we're bringing our lived and learned experiences with us.

[00:10:19] Danielle Smeltzer: So anything we've gone through in our life conditioning, emotional response patterns and things like that, as much as we like to try and bring a different self to work, or maybe a compartmentalized version, we bring all that with us. And so it's, it's acknowledging that those truths of.

[00:10:37] Danielle Smeltzer: How we may react in a situation. There's a lot underneath that. And so within body leadership, we start to try and unpack and understand that largely through the nervous system of what, what patterns of stress responses of emotional behaviors and things like that. So when we can build that awareness as ourself as a leader, and we're in an environment where there's a highly stressful [00:11:00] situation maybe a big meeting is an example where you're debating a.

[00:11:05] Danielle Smeltzer: Challenging topic and someone flies off the handle and just says, no, we absolutely cannot do that. And then everyone kind of gets on the tension rises and, and this is the space for an embodied leader to be able to notice that. But then also notice how they are reacting and responding within their own system and then take a pause and a step back and then figure out how they want to respond from there.

[00:11:30] Danielle Smeltzer: Cause it's pretty easy to normalize the reacting as a way that Things work in the workplace, and I saw the challenges with that of quick decision making that wasn't necessarily fully considered and the ramifications of that down the road. So when we can, yeah, understand how we're reacting, others are reacting, and then taking that, that pause to figure out how to respond, which is more of an intentional response there's a big [00:12:00] difference there.

[00:12:01] Loree Philip: Yeah, I think we can all relate to responding from a place that we're not proud of. Yeah, exactly. And nothing ever good comes out of it. Like, I can't think of one example of a time where I did that and I was like proud of my reaction and how it turned out. And so, this is important for us to know. I think a lot of those pre sort of the emotional triggers and behaviors that we've picked up since we were young and our reaction to in the environment when, when the stress comes up, that response, right?

[00:12:38] Loree Philip: If we don't know about them, like if we don't tune into them, start to pay attention to them, notice like, okay, when I'm in this kind of environment, this is my tendency for sure. And then we can't, we can't do this step. We were, we're gonna, if, if we don't notice it, then we're just doing it. Right. So I think [00:13:00] just like the name of.

[00:13:02] Loree Philip: Your business awarely, like that first step is awareness to see what you're doing, to understand your patterns, to once you get a handle out on them, taking that moment, when you're in those environments to pause. And I'm always a, in favor of intentional responses. Like we, I think we navigate most of our lives on autopilot and kind of just going through the motions sometimes that even if you're not in a stress response, like being intentional is great, but.

[00:13:39] Loree Philip: In this situation that we're talking about here, Danielle, pausing seeing what's what it is, like, what's going on for what it is, and then shifting gears into. When you're ready and it doesn't have to be instant, right? To make a more informed response, have you noticed with your clients, just this one [00:14:00] thing, can make a difference in the way they show up in the results that they, they bring forward.

[00:14:06] Danielle Smeltzer: I mean, you, you named that perfectly. And that the whole reason that the company name is called the wherely is because awareness is absolutely the foundational, foundational piece of that. And I think if we have that in the back of our mind, and even if we're, we don't react perfectly, or even if we're still having a a quick response, the fact of us.

[00:14:26] Danielle Smeltzer: Being able to notice that after the fact is even a step forward. And so I don't ever, I'm not ever trying to make anyone perfect or dehumanize the experience. It's more of this is the reality. We're going to be faced with pressures and stressors, and we can't avoid. Or diminish that it is the reality of being a leader.

[00:14:46] Danielle Smeltzer: It's the reality of the modern workplace that when we start to build, I like to think of it as like building a muscle,

[00:14:54] Danielle Smeltzer: Muscle of awareness. And when it becomes you get used to lifting or as you say, weightlifting [00:15:00] or something like that. And you build that muscle, the strength of your ability to, take that pause starts to build up.

[00:15:07] Loree Philip: Mm. I'm glad you brought that up. A lot, a lot of, of things we do well in life is because of practice and habit building. And I say do well, but I mean with frequency. So a lot of the times we have habits that maybe we don't. Like, but we do those well, whether or not we like them or not. And so I just feel like it's so empowering when we can notice habits that we don't care for and decide to start to practice.

[00:15:42] Loree Philip: Changing them, right. And, and being kind with ourselves when we don't make it because just the act of noticing and trying is a huge step forward. And we should give ourselves credit for just that one step.

[00:15:55] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah. I say that a lot of with awareness comes choice and with choice comes change. And [00:16:00] it's not instant and you may not always be able to choose the change either because we're.

[00:16:06] Danielle Smeltzer: We're conditioned with it could be 20, 30 years of patterns of behavior of doing the same thing. And that's probably served us in some way. So there's also having understanding of that and, but be able to have some clarity of that. There are different choices. I think that's one of the things that really helps people understand is just because I've reacted this way for 30 years, doesn't mean I have to going forward.

[00:16:28] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah.

[00:16:31] Loree Philip: That's where the power lies. Yeah. Looking forward and kind of letting go of the past and feeling that you can shift, you can decide right now to make a change, but then it doesn't happen overnight and we have to be okay with that, that you're right, we've been doing the same thing for so long. We basically built a super free highway on that neural pathway.

[00:16:56] Loree Philip: It's so big and giant and like it could fit a zillion [00:17:00] cars on it because we run it. So many times that it's just deciding isn't going to switch it, but it's the first most important step and yeah, and then you can start to

[00:17:11] Loree Philip: practice.

[00:17:12] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah, there's this somatic experiencing, which is the basis of a lot of the work I do with a rarely called wells. And so as you start to. Build these new neural pathways and these new patterns of responding, you have different access to different levels. And so as you make that one different choice, and then you kind of move down to the next one and the next one and the next one, that's where you could start to kind of build through the layers.

[00:17:37] Danielle Smeltzer: And then that's your foundation for greater choice. So those are some of the approaches I look at as well.

[00:17:42] Loree Philip: Yeah. Let's talk about switching out of burnout into well being. Do you, I've, I've been talking about burnout a little bit more and more lately, with, with different experts and, and people, because there is this [00:18:00] sense of just general, like collective burnout going on.

[00:18:05] Loree Philip: Like, I think people are getting to a point where it's like, enough is enough like. There's only so many hours in the day. There's only so many things I can accomplish. And when I'm scattered and have so much demand on me, people are ready to like raise the white flag and say, I surrender.

[00:18:27] Loree Philip: I give up. Yeah. So in your experience and what you advocate with awarely, can we shift out of burnout into wellbeing and embody that in our leadership? Yeah.

[00:18:39] Danielle Smeltzer: I believe absolutely. The approach that I take or the lens that I take is, is certainly around shifting this celebration of recovery from burnout to more proactive and preventative.

[00:18:53] Danielle Smeltzer: A lot of the times when we start to engage in the conversation around stress and burnout, it's after it has happened. And then we say, [00:19:00] congratulations, you made it back. You're back you've recovered, but I'd like to just break that pattern completely. So it takes a couple different things.

[00:19:08] Danielle Smeltzer: And my approach is looking at the systemic challenges within organizations. So we need to look at that along with providing leaders with the tools and the skills that they need to understand. And build that awareness of how stress and burnout shows up for them and hopefully interrupt those patterns from continuing to perpetuate these cycles of burnout.

[00:19:29] Danielle Smeltzer: And that certainly was my experience of just constant cycles of burnout. So I'm the living proof that that is possible. You can interrupt those and rebuild your capacity in a different way and then build that awareness so that you can prevent that going forward. So that's my kind of two pronged approach is let's fix the systemic problems within organizations and then also support leaders with preventing stress and burnout.

[00:19:55] Loree Philip: Yeah, I, I appreciate the preventative approach for sure. [00:20:00] And I think one of the challenges that I see with us leaning in on preventative approach is that when we're in this place, sometimes. It make, it takes like us getting hit by a bus

[00:20:14] Danielle Smeltzer: to

[00:20:14] Loree Philip: realize that we really need to systematically change how we show up, how we look at work, how we prioritize that we can't do everything whole, like juggle every single ball and just, it's not sustainable.

[00:20:31] Loree Philip: And so I, I think. I would love preventative, and I think systematically within organizations is a great place to look at that because they have more control over, managing workloads and time in office and, letting people have boundaries outside of the work and just the culture itself, right?

[00:20:53] Loree Philip: Is that kind of what you're seeing maybe might be the biggest area around [00:21:00] preventative?

[00:21:01] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah, I think a lot of it if it to impact those two areas is really changing the dialogue around what stress is, stress is one of those things that's somewhat demonized right now. Everyone's like, let's eliminate it.

[00:21:14] Danielle Smeltzer: Let's eradicate it. It's terrible. But my stance is actually let's try to understand stress and change our relationship with it. Because as we touched on earlier in the episode, it's the reality of our lives and the workplace in the modern world. So how do we start to understand how it shows up for us?

[00:21:33] Danielle Smeltzer: And that there's actually some elements of stress that are actually good, which is a, which is a hot topic. But when we start to understand what actually happens in our nervous system and how it's designed to actually move us through stressors and deactivation, this is essentially how it's supposed to work.

[00:21:49] Danielle Smeltzer: It's like, if you think about it like this, it's supposed to go back and forth like this. But when we're running into trouble is when we get stuck in the on button or the off button. And so this is when you start to hear about burnout is when [00:22:00] people. Lose the ability to go back and forth and so I think part of it is this education of the way Our nervous systems are actually designed is to allow for a certain degree of stress Because when we try to eliminate it completely that's where we get completely stuck because it's just not the reality So that's where I start is completely changing the dialogue first.

[00:22:23] Loree Philip: Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. We can't get rid of it completely. And, there, there is like, if, if, if a person is growing and aspiring to To do, I don't wanna say more, but reach their goals, to be better, to, achieve something that they're really proud of, they have a passion, they have a purpose, they have those people.

[00:22:50] Loree Philip: Are still going to be stressed because they're going to push themselves outside their comfort zone. And that unknown is stressful. [00:23:00] That unknown is going to cause them to kind of freak out. Just at least a little tiny bit. I experienced this daily. And, and so I liked the idea of then saying, okay, we're going to have some element.

[00:23:18] Loree Philip: Of stress in our lives, and that's just kind of life, but the way in which we react to it, handle it, switch back into a regulated state is, is within our control and how we can practice, right?

[00:23:37] Danielle Smeltzer: Exactly. Yeah, so I focus on capacity, well, awareness and capacity building are the two kind of components together of, okay, understanding how stress works and awareness of how it shows up for us.

[00:23:50] Danielle Smeltzer: And then, like, strategies and ways to build capacity to have, we call it a window of tolerance, which is, Essentially how much stress your [00:24:00] system can handle and how much stress your system can handle to still support you with moving between these activation and deactivation. So I focus on that, that sweet spot for people of, you're not trying to get rid of it.

[00:24:12] Danielle Smeltzer: We're trying to build capacity and this isn't just for more work. It's not just about that. It's also about more engagement and connection and joy and these other sides of living. I will count myself in that category, as you said there highly driven, highly motivated. I, I love to work, even though I'm really an advocate for workplace wellbeing and all these other things.

[00:24:35] Danielle Smeltzer: I know that about myself. And so that's been my focus is how can I continue to have impact and bring all these big things into the world while also building my capacity to do that. So that's been my focus of holding both of those at once.

[00:24:50] Loree Philip: Since we're talking about it, what are maybe a couple of things people can do to work on building their capacity?

[00:24:56] Loree Philip: Mm hmm.

[00:24:58] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah, I mean, I definitely, [00:25:00] I'm going to say awareness again, but it is starting to understand Well, first, switching your, switching your brain of not all stress is bad. So the, the normal tendency is the second that you start to feel any kind of level of stress in the body or in your environment, you, you tense up and we kind of like push against it.

[00:25:20] Danielle Smeltzer: And that just has a. Well, it makes it worse. So it's, it's first of all understanding that some stress can serve us. So like, when you're breaking at a stop light, or you're catching that hot cup of coffee, or you need to push through a big project or a deadline those are.

[00:25:37] Danielle Smeltzer: Those kind of stressors are okay. It's knowing that it's, it's temporary, it's not permanent, it is something that we just need to move through, and then trusting that we can come back to this state of, deactivation. And then it's starting to understand, okay, like when we, when we're stuck in that state of activation, what happens in our system, so what do you start to notice with [00:26:00] sensations in the body emotions behaviors maybe that's you stop sleeping, maybe you start talking really fast, maybe it's you stop making plans with friends watching for all of those signs, and then starting to understand in your own system What supports you with moving back towards the state of regulation.

[00:26:20] Danielle Smeltzer: So for me, often that's reconnecting with friends that's getting outside. That's putting my feet on the floor. Doesn't always have to be really complicated. It can be these small interventions and interruptions that support us from just breaking that pattern of getting stuck in activation. So it's, it.

[00:26:40] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah, that's my approach. It doesn't have to be complicated. It's this, it's this awareness and then finding, finding this familiarity and understanding of how you uniquely react and respond in your own environments.

[00:26:53] Loree Philip: Yeah, yeah. And I, I like this, when we talk about, Being in stress [00:27:00] and being okay with it, but then coming back to like a normal less stressful state, right?

[00:27:06] Loree Philip: And that's the piece. I think we've missed sometimes. Yeah Because if we just let life dictate What we're doing, what's on our plate, how busy we are, what's next on our to do list, we won't come down from that stressful place. We'll just stay up here. And so part of it is too, is deciding, Hey, okay, this is temporary.

[00:27:33] Loree Philip: And when this is done, I will. Take a day off and regroup and reprioritize my next projects or my next things it's like, taking, taking control of it a bit without being so abrasive about it, but it's like, let's, let's take that step. It's almost like the pause we talked about before, but in a, like a more macro level, like a work, a workload type of [00:28:00] stress pause in a sense, and just take that time to regroup.

[00:28:03] Loree Philip: And is that, is that something that, you would advocate for?

[00:28:09] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah. And if I use language that a lot of people understand, it's, it's really reframing what rest is for people. So we think a lot of times that rest has to be earned and it's something we do after we've accomplished something, but I'm also advocating for, like you said, the, the, the pause before we get into that place of overdrawn and overwhelmed and that rest actually serves us not just as a recovery mechanism, but also an integration.

[00:28:36] Danielle Smeltzer: So we learned something new and our. Brains and bodies need to reorganize around that in order to well, embody that going forward. It's also a way to become more innovative and, think of new ideas and create space for that. It's also a way to reconnect with people and other things that bring you joy in your life.

[00:28:58] Danielle Smeltzer: It's not. [00:29:00] Rest is not just what we think of as like lying in a bed and just like, okay, 20 minutes of like, got to do my little nap. It's, it can be, but there's a lot of different ways we can have that pause and rest and support ourselves in moving between these big phases of oxidation and deactivation.

[00:29:19] Loree Philip: Yeah, it definitely is. We have to switch the way we think about it. I am completely with you on this, Danielle, because it, it goes against I think what society has programmed us to generally think about this topic. Like we need to do, do, do, do, do, and that's how we get things done. But. If we take the breaks, if we rest, we, we do so much better when we show up to do, right?

[00:29:48] Loree Philip: We are just more efficient. We have better ideas. We are showing up in our best selves. Yeah. We are connected. We are in better moods, like everything. It's [00:30:00] like, supercharging when you do the work instead of just, and if you let it go, if you just do, do, do, do, do, you're, you're, yeah, you're doing it, but it's, it's, it's not sustainable.

[00:30:13] Loree Philip: It's not fun. It's not energized all this stuff.

[00:30:17] Danielle Smeltzer: Yeah. I think we have some pretty outdated ideas of how people can be productive. And it doesn't mean sitting 12 hours a day. I did a post the other day about work actually looks like many different things. It's. It's listening to a podcast like this that gives you a new way of thinking it's going for a walk to get ready for a meeting.

[00:30:37] Danielle Smeltzer: It's taking a break to, write something in your notebook as opposed to looking at a screen. There's all these. different ways that what work looks like right now. It doesn't have to be the traditional, traditional way. So I think it's a lot of breaking these old ideas and these systems and expectations that have a lot of different ways to be [00:31:00] productive and to have high performing people.

[00:31:02] Danielle Smeltzer: And when we can give people more access and understanding of what works in their own systems of how to support that that's where we get these cultures where people are engaged and companies are performing well. Mm hmm.

[00:31:17] Loree Philip: Yeah, it's, it's so true and I will advocate for listening to podcasts like this.

[00:31:24] Loree Philip: It's part of the work. I love it.

[00:31:29] Loree Philip: Since we were talking about it. We're going to start to wind things down here a bit, Danielle. I'd love to hear any last thoughts you might have, something we might've missed. Great, That's important in this conversation about embodied leadership that you'd like to bring forward here for the audience.

[00:31:46] Danielle Smeltzer: I think more than anything, I think it's just the, this is the, the missing piece of leadership that I think we need for the modern workplace. Yeah, we need to shift the way we think about bridging these gaps between work and well being [00:32:00] and equipping leaders with the skills that they actually need to deal with all of these pressures.

[00:32:05] Danielle Smeltzer: There's, there's no such thing as work and life anymore. It is, it is an integration. And. We can't keep talking about work life balance when we're separating the two, it's that we need to figure out ways to bring them more together and give people permission to look at both and hold both together and that that actually helps companies survive and thrive.

[00:32:29] Loree Philip: Thank you for that. Yeah. The, I remember thinking about work life balance and the, the piece that I thought was missing, and I like this idea of like, why are they separate work and life because you're right. It's more integrated, but what about work life fun? Like we're so busy. Trying to find balance that we completely miss the joy and the fun and the adventure and all of the things that that light us up.

[00:32:58] Loree Philip: And so, [00:33:00] maybe I should start like a hashtag or something. Work Life Fun.

[00:33:04] Danielle Smeltzer: Bring back the joy. I think that's a lot of this is. When we, we do this work, that's when we have access to all of these different things about things that understanding of what actually brings us joy and connection and play and I said the other day that I think I'm aging backwards because I, I play like a toddler now.

[00:33:23] Danielle Smeltzer: I'm in the park playing with my niece, teaching her how to fly a kite. And 10 years ago when I was. Doing my first executive jobs, I would have been like, no, I've got to just be serious and focus on this. I'm like, no, flying a kite is like the best thing because the next day I have so much ideas and innovation and I'm like ready to go because I had access to that to be able to refocus.

[00:33:44] Danielle Smeltzer: So yes, yes, it's just shifting, shifting the way we do things.

[00:33:49] Loree Philip: Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for this, Danielle. I'd love for you to share with the audience where they can learn more about you and your work.

[00:33:58] Danielle Smeltzer: For sure, yeah, you can find [00:34:00] me on LinkedIn Danielle Smeltzer, you can just find me on there or you can check out my website, it's awarely.

[00:34:06] Danielle Smeltzer: ca, and there's a place to book an intro call if anyone has curiosities or just wants to talk about trauma informed leadership or progressive workplace well being, that's the place for it.

[00:34:18] Loree Philip: Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciated this conversation. And, and this is just an area that I think we need to continue to focus on and bring forward in the conversation.

[00:34:28] Loree Philip: So thank you for leading the charge on that. And thank you for the platform to have these conversations. It's

[00:34:33] Danielle Smeltzer: much needed. Thank you. Of course.

[00:34:36] Loree Philip: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you've enjoyed it, I would love for you to subscribe. If you're already a subscriber, don't forget to share the podcast with a friend.

[00:34:48] Loree Philip: Make sure to tune in next week. We will be speaking with Carrie Tependino on how we are just one thought away from changing our situation and reaching our goals. I hope you have [00:35:00] an amazing week. It's your time to shine. Bye.