#51 – Breaking Barriers: From Secretary to CMO & The Proven Laws for Success In a Workplace Not Designed For You | Empowerment & Career Advice

[00:00:00] Loree Philip: Hi, and welcome to the daring to leap podcast. I'm your host, Loree Philip. I'm so excited to dive into this week's episode with you. Our special guest Eugena Jordan navigated to the top of the male dominated telecom industry. Working her way up from secretary to chief marketing officer, she's here to share her powerful story and advice on how you can break barriers and succeed. In a workplace not designed for you. Let's dive in.

[00:00:33] Loree Philip: eugenia started her telecom career as a secretary and now has become the chief marketing officer of the prominent industry organization, Telecom Infra Project. She has over 20 years of strategic marketing experience.

[00:00:49] Loree Philip: She is an inventor holding 12 patents. On 5G and Open RAN. Her passion is to mentor other women in tech and her leadership book. [00:01:00] Unlimited the 17 Proven Laws for Success in a Workplace Not Designed for You was published in June of 2023. Welcome to the show, Eugenia.

[00:01:13] Eugina Jordan: Thank you so, so very much for having me, Lori, on your show.

[00:01:17] Loree Philip: Absolutely. I'm so excited that you're here. And we had such a great pre chat. So there's so much to talk about. And, let's just go ahead and get started. And I'm really curious about your Your journey, you've had such a long, and beautiful career starting as a secretary. Now in that CMO position, how did you get from here to here?

[00:01:42] Loree Philip: And I assume it wasn't easy peasy.

[00:01:46] Eugina Jordan: So as you Lori know it's never easy peasy. It requires hard work. So we all become overnight success after working for 20, 25 years. [00:02:00] And then we get lucky. So people see, don't see the work, the tears, the sweat. my story where I grew up is a part of my journey as well, because I grew up in communist Russia, and I grew up in a very, modest family.

[00:02:20] Eugina Jordan: My mom was a single mom, and what it meant, sometimes we didn't even have enough food, so we would go and knock on the neighbor's door to get macaroni for dinner. And my mom, God bless her. She passed away 11 years ago. She always knew I deserved better. So she instilled love for education. So she gave me the best education.

[00:02:50] Eugina Jordan: I have masters in teaching, so she scraped enough money, her and my grandfather to send me to Canada at the age of 24 [00:03:00] and that's where I got my second degree. So to answer your question, what helped me to move from secretary into the CMO position? Number one is curiosity, hunger for knowledge to learn things.

[00:03:17] Eugina Jordan: Number two, knowing from my mama, that's what we call them mothers in Russia or my mama, that I deserved better. And number three, building a wonderful support circle in the network. Because it takes a village for an underrepresented like me to become or get into the C suite.

[00:03:41] Loree Philip: for sharing that. Our origin story. it really, if you dig deep, it always starts with our family experience and growing up in those wherever that was for each person. And being underrepresented in, as an immigrant, as a [00:04:00] woman has its challenges as it is. And I'm curious around why telecom and, and this type of industry where.

[00:04:13] Loree Philip: And you know this better than I do, but it is highly male dominated industry. So it's going to be the barriers are even greater than some of the other industries where women are more likely to succeed a little bit easier.

[00:04:31] Eugina Jordan: Such a good question because if in 2001 when I was entering telecom, I knew how hard it's going to be.

[00:04:39] Eugina Jordan: That I will have to fight for everything, not just for me, but also for people like me. I would have given it a couple of extra thoughts. I fell into telecom. It was 9 11, after 9 11, and there was no jobs available. The market froze, [00:05:00] and I had a mom in Canada. I needed to support her. So I had to get a job and the only job that wanted me was a tiny little telecom startup.

[00:05:15] Eugina Jordan: They had a temporary opening for receptionist and the CEO. The reason he hired me because of my fire in the belly. He always told me that he wasn't hiring me as a receptionist. He was hiring someone with passion, smarts, desire to succeed. To help him build a company. And what is interesting, I'm going to reference Hamilton, because that's how I describe my career as well, the musical.

[00:05:49] Eugina Jordan: I was given a shot, and I didn't throw away that shot. And that is important for underrepresented taking that shot, finding those supporters, and just [00:06:00] working towards what they want to achieve. I wanted to be in marketing and it took me six years to move from being a secretary, executive assistant, chief of staff into the marketing role.

[00:06:16] Eugina Jordan: And that CEO became my biggest, biggest supporter and a sponsor. And then my first marketing was he gave me a chance because again, he saw that fire in the belly.

[00:06:31] Loree Philip: Yeah. And I, I love that you bring that up because, sometimes that's what it is. That next step is the step right in front of you. And that's where you can start and you can take that shot and navigate from there, until a point that you decide you want to do something else. So you have more opportunities come in, but there's always that first step and.

[00:06:56] Loree Philip: The journey is, could be starting as receptionist, it could [00:07:00] be starting as some other position and then getting to know the right people, showing them your worth, these types of things. I want to transition a bit into some of the, the laws in your book, and I really, really love how you focus this leadership book around for, for individuals.

[00:07:23] Loree Philip: Underrepresented individuals, to help them navigate in a workplace, not designed for them.when I read that in your bio, I resonated with it quite a bit. And it's, it's fairly clear to people that go into corporate or go into certain environments and they know right away that this was not set up for someone like me.

[00:07:49] Loree Philip: Which just makes there be more barriers, more concerns, more doubts, more it's just, it's not very smooth. And like I said early, [00:08:00] easy peasy, I was kind of saying that in jest, but it's not that. And so tell me a bit about why did you decide to write this book? And you mentioned to me about.

[00:08:13] Loree Philip: Representation, even in writing a leadership book. Can you share that story with with the audience?

[00:08:20] Eugina Jordan: Absolutely. Absolutely. So if we look at data, um, I have a research background, so you can see it in my book. There's a lot of research and also is underrepresented. We need to lead with facts and data and not our emotion because it's very hard to find data and facts.

[00:08:44] Eugina Jordan: So you were talking about corporate, Lori, and it's not just corporate, only two or three percent of available funding, venture funding, goes to women. And it's even lower much lower for [00:09:00] people of color. So there's a disparity there. In my industry, there's only 13, 12 percent of C level. Leaders female, there is no data for people of color or immigrant females because to the system, there's so very little of us, but don't exist for the leadership book.

[00:09:24] Eugina Jordan: When I started writing it and started thinking about the promotional campaign, I was thinking, what is the angle because I realized that there's a lot of literature book written by men and obviously for men. And then I came across a very interesting data point that in 2020, there were more books written by the name of, by a person named John, than women.

[00:09:56] Eugina Jordan: People of color or immigrants combined. [00:10:00] Wow. So that's an interesting piece of data because there's nothing, and I always say it and it's, I think it's in my book as well, there's nothing wrong with those books. Nothing. They're leadership classics. I read them. I enjoy reading them. What is obvious that those authors, they don't know how to.

[00:10:27] Eugina Jordan: How to relate to people like me, women, immigrant, or how to relate to people of color, because in my book, there is a chapter with an expert that speaking while immigrant female, we know that when you're a female, it's very different when you speak on meetings. When you're a person of color, when you speak, it's different.

[00:10:52] Eugina Jordan: When you're an African American female or if you're an immigrant female, it's extremely different. [00:11:00] How many times I was told I'm yelling? I have a low voice and I have an accent. I'm not yelling. That's how I speak. How many times I was told that I'm aggressive and bossy? So, speaking while immigrant female, knowing all that data, that we are underrepresented, leadership books are not written for us and by us, that was the motivation for me to write that book.

[00:11:30] Loree Philip: Yes. And I, it's such an interesting story and I love you come at it from facts and data. Because I, I like to, I tend to see things very intuitively and it when you said that, I was like you're right there, there are probably more book leadership books written by John in 2020, then ever all of the underrepresented groups but combined [00:12:00] and to me,

[00:12:02] Loree Philip: It really says something about, those strategies in those books, like you said, are worth reading. But there is a different perspective that needs to be shared. And I love that you wrote the book having had the experience of navigating. Your career over the years and then reaching to the C suite level, which is still a very difficult thing to do for most women.

[00:12:33] Loree Philip: And so, I kudos for going for it, Eugenia, and writing the book. And I hope some of the viewers will check it out when they have a chance. Let's talk a bit about some of the strategies or the the laws of success. And, I think where I want to start is you mentioned earlier when we were chatting about your journey, your sponsor, and I know we had [00:13:00] talked about how important sponsors are in.

[00:13:03] Loree Philip: a career journey. And let's just start with, what is a sponsor? How is it different than a mentor because it is different, right? What is your perspective on that? Why is why is having a sponsor so

[00:13:15] Eugina Jordan: important? So you're absolutely right. As women, we don't realize that having that person in our corner is super important because we believe we're going to get the promotions if we work hard.

[00:13:31] Eugina Jordan: And we don't get those promotions because there are rooms where we are not represented. So we need to have someone in that room where there is a conversation about who to get promoted. Our name is going to be mentioned. So the difference between mentor and sponsor, mentor is going to help you get better.

[00:13:57] Eugina Jordan: Sponsor is going to give you [00:14:00] opportunities and sponsor is going to mention your name in the room when you're not there. And I always describe the, my former CEO from 20 years ago, who became my sponsor because he vouched for me in my work when I asked for the transfer into marketing and you were talking about how we all need to take the first step.

[00:14:25] Eugina Jordan: It was super scary asking him because I didn't know what he was going to say. He got up from the desk when I asked for the transfer into marketing, gave me a huge hug. And he said he couldn't hold my ambition. And 15 years later, I mailed him the book with the note and he sent me a WhatsApp and he said, till this day, I remember that day when you walked into my office, marched into my office and we didn't make the right decision for you and me.

[00:14:59] Eugina Jordan: [00:15:00] Only we made that the right decision for the companies, industries and people that you've impacted having someone that knows what you can do even before you know it is going to propel any underrepresented individual to that success. So if people listening to this podcast and they want to one take away, find that sponsor.

[00:15:29] Eugina Jordan: gonna help you realize your full potential.

[00:15:35] Eugina Jordan: Yeah,

[00:15:36] Loree Philip: and I think we all want to have someone in our corner, someone willing to bring up our name in the room when we're not there. I'm curious about what your advice is for somebody who's like, okay, I, I have some mentors, or I have some trusted colleagues and people. That I go to talk [00:16:00] about work, but how do I get a sponsor that's at the appropriate level to be in those rooms if I don't already have one?

[00:16:10] Loree Philip: It's, I think for some people, it feels like a bit of a stretch. So where, where does a person start to, to look for and find a sponsor and then, cultivate that relationship with them?

[00:16:23] Eugina Jordan: And Lori, that's a key. It's all about cultivating the relationship. No one is gonna vouch for you if you haven't proven yourself to that person.

[00:16:37] Eugina Jordan: So, sponsorship is not given. Sponsorship is earned. And unfortunately, as women, We get five times less sponsors than men and it's just psychologically because men who are in the position of power, they gravitate toward young men because they remind them of themselves when [00:17:00] they were younger. Yeah. So it's it starts with developing that relationship.

[00:17:04] Eugina Jordan: It starts with identifying those humans in your organization. And approaching them, talking to them, your career aspirations and not asking, going and saying, Oh I want this promotion. It's exploring, it's talking to them, how they got there, building that relationship, and then proving you're proving that you can do the job.

[00:17:31] Eugina Jordan: The reason that my CEO sponsored me into the marketing role. Because I've proven myself, he was able to vouch for the work that I did, the dedication. So, start, so if you want the road map, how you can find a sponsor. Number one, identify people in your organization. Get to know them, or about them [00:18:00] first.

[00:18:00] Eugina Jordan: That's step number one. Step number two, reach out for career advice. Many people in leadership roles, they feel honored and they always want to give back to younger generation or even mid career level individual. So that's number two. And number three, schedule conversations with this person, offer to help because as you develop that relationship, they might say, Oh, I need.

[00:18:32] Eugina Jordan: This project is so challenging. So take a stretch assignment from that person. And know that it's not going to happen within a month or two months. It might take a year or two to earn that. So If you want to stay with the same organization and if you want to get that promotion outside of your organization, that the only way to do it is to look for another job and [00:19:00] your next title.

[00:19:01] Eugina Jordan: So you always have a choice finding and sponsor working on that relationship or going out there interviewing and finding that next level outside of the company that you're currently with.

[00:19:15] Loree Philip: Yeah. Thank you for the step by step process. I think sometimes we're like, Oh, that sounds good in theory, but how do I do it?

[00:19:22] Loree Philip: And what came up for me while you were talking is if I'm somebody who's thinking about, okay, I need to get a sponsor. I don't have one. And then. Self doubt comes up a bit like reaching out to some of these people. And so I think I want to talk a bit about imposter syndrome and, how can people, women, start to get past the doubt, self doubts and their capabilities and feel like, yes, you know what, I deserve to speak to these people.

[00:19:53] Loree Philip: I'm a good part of this organization. I have great work. And, and really [00:20:00] see the true value that they bring forward. And I, I say this knowing that, that you've had some of these doubts come up. So maybe we can start with that, like share with us how you get past some of the doubts that you have as you've moved through the ranks.

[00:20:17] Eugina Jordan: So I'm going to share a story with my previous company. I started as a director of marketing, then I got promoted into vice president of marketing. And I was told that there was a person, an engineer, that when he reached, he got approached about a job in that company. He remembered me from 20 years ago when I was a receptionist, and he said, Oh my God, a receptionist is now running marketing at that company.

[00:20:56] Eugina Jordan: So when it came down to me, of course, you're going to say, Oh [00:21:00] my God, two steps. Number one, accepting all parts of your story, where you started is not your destination. And number two is writing a brag list. I looked at my brag list. I was a VP of marketing. I had patents. I started the new market category.

[00:21:23] Eugina Jordan: I was invited to speak. So in, since 2001, and it was, I think it was maybe 2017 or 18. So in those 18 years, I've achieved all that patents, industry recognition, written articles in, in the industry. And that person was still an engineer.

[00:21:47] Loree Philip: What a powerful story, Eugenia, and I, I love this idea of the brag list and also owning your full story and where I love this idea of where you start is not where your end [00:22:00] destination is. So true for so many people and, that brag list, it's so important because I think in the moment where we're feeling these feelings.

[00:22:11] Loree Philip: All of the facts and data and the knowing about of our capabilities like flies right out the door, right? It's like, Oh yeah, I forgot. I spoke at that industry event last week and I was entitled to be there. I was a speaker, and so I think this is a powerful tool for somebody, especially when you get into that emotional state to bring in the facts and data, as we go back to that idea of.

[00:22:39] Loree Philip: Wow, I have done these things and let that sink in and think about like if somebody else said, I've accomplished these things. What would you think about them? You'd be wow. So don't just blow over it and say, Oh yeah, I did this. Oh yeah, I did that. No, you did. And if you're listening to our conversation right now, I know you've done [00:23:00] some hard things.

[00:23:01] Loree Philip: You're a person that likes to learn and grow and reach. And so, when you write your brag list, put the stuff on there. And let it sink in. I love that.

[00:23:15] Eugina Jordan: So what I do with my brag list, I would suggest to your listeners, write it down, or type it on your phone, whatever works. Take a screenshot, and save that screenshot to your camera roll.

[00:23:31] Eugina Jordan: So next time there's a doubt, You go and you look at that brag list that is in your phone, saved as a screenshot. And it's all about managing the emotions. There is so many people out there that will want to make you feel small. Why would you want to make yourself feel small? Always make yourself feel big and always bet on yourself and always celebrate [00:24:00] you.

[00:24:00] Loree Philip: Yeah, that's a, that's a really important point. It really all does start with ourselves and it's with what's, what's. The beauty of it, whether you like it or not, is it's within our control, um, with practice, with work, you can reframe these thoughts you're having about yourself and shift them into more empowering, thoughts that, that can make yourself feel as capable and bright as you are.

[00:24:34] Loree Philip: And that's, we're not trying to say you should think of yourself like way bigger than, than that's past what you're doing. Like you're already like, give yourself that credit of where you're at. And that is a beautiful starting point. For

[00:24:50] Eugina Jordan: sure. Absolutely. You are in a position you are now because you deserve it.

[00:24:56] Eugina Jordan: No one gave it to you because,[00:25:00] anything, right? So no one just gave it to you. You're in the seat that you are right now because you deserve it because you're doing an awesome job. So as Laurie suggested, start reframing those thoughts. Start thinking, why are those thoughts coming into my mind? And sometimes they're triggers, triggers from the past.

[00:25:20] Eugina Jordan: Someone yelled at you in the past or someone said unkind thing to you. So instead of thinking about triggers. Think about glimmers. And glimmers are obviously opposite of triggers, and they're situations where someone praised you, where someone sent you an email saying what an amazing job you did, or someone clapped after your presentation.

[00:25:48] Eugina Jordan: So think about glimmers. And help those glimmers make you leap, leap to your next level, to your next project. And [00:26:00] start reframing today.

[00:26:02] Loree Philip: So let's, let's shift gears here, Eugenia. I'd love to hear what other, success principles or laws that you'd like to bring into the conversation.

[00:26:13] Eugina Jordan: Thank you. So we already talked about the first law, the first set of laws around an individual, just like you. I believe it's in our control system exists. We cannot allow the system to. Limit ourselves. So it's the first set of laws, self awareness, learning, negotiate, working on your thoughts, making yourself better than the second set of laws.

[00:26:42] Eugina Jordan: It's about your village, your community, your supporters, your sponsors and how you network. And I think for many women, we feel that networking is yicky. So, we suggested to reframe your [00:27:00] thoughts about imposter syndrome. I'm suggesting this in the same manner, reframe how you network, ladies. And realize that women network differently.

[00:27:15] Eugina Jordan: I, for example, I don't drink, I don't golf, I don't do all those things that normally is associated with networking. I've built multiple communities because I realized I network by giving to people. I network by connecting people. And I realize that women, that's how we network. By giving, by supporting one another.

[00:27:41] Eugina Jordan: So, network the way that You are meant to network, build communities, build those relationships, reach out to people on LinkedIn, reach out to people in your company, connect with them, offer help, and this is how you [00:28:00] can build a very supportive community, and this is how you can network at events on LinkedIn within your company by offering to help.

[00:28:10] Loree Philip: Yeah, I like this idea, and I think it's so applicable to so many aspects of the way we show up, the way we do things, and networking is a prime example of, okay, when you think of networking, you think of it in a certain way, because that's how it's been done in the past by the majority, and the majority is likely to be men, and And around the things that they like to do, right?

[00:28:38] Loree Philip: And so at some point, we get to give ourselves permission to do activities, whether it's networking, whether it's leadership, whether it's completing a project in a way that aligns with your authentic self and the way you like to do things. And [00:29:00] when we give ourselves that permission, it's so powerful.

[00:29:03] Loree Philip: And I believe that the results. Are, I don't know, I don't have data around how many eggs it's better, but the results are better because you're if you feel icky about networking and you shift it into an approach that works for you, that you like to do, you're going to do it.

[00:29:23] Loree Philip: And the difference between not doing it and doing it is huge in a career where you do need to have that community. You do need to have. other people on your side. What are your thoughts on that, Eugenia?

[00:29:41] Eugina Jordan: Absolutely. And I can tell you a story about how community helped me and my colleagues when we were laid off as a part of a mass layoff last year.

[00:29:55] Eugina Jordan: So, and it comes. Hand in hand, having a strong [00:30:00] personal brand and as you mentioned, Lori, women hesitate to network and women also hesitate to build their professional brands. It's like dating. I met my husband 12 years ago, 13 years ago now on match. com. So we lived one mile apart from each other. I was a single mom.

[00:30:22] Eugina Jordan: He was a business owner. Unless we advertise that we were available and looking for love. We want to found one another personal brand is same thing. It's you showcasing your expertise. I call it job security. Everyone knows who you are. That's number one. Number two, as you were talking about accomplishments, it's you doing serve a service to your employer because the best employee is out there promoting the company and what the company does.

[00:30:59] Eugina Jordan: [00:31:00] And number three, it's a service to people like you, that they see you out there doing wonderful things, doing amazing things, and they realize they can be like you. If you see them, you can be them. So to continue your thought on networking, networking comes with building community and building that professional brand and sharing your stories.

[00:31:31] Eugina Jordan: If I didn't share my stories, if I didn't have a strong personal brand, by the time we got laid off last June, no one would have reached out. I posted one post on LinkedIn, letting the, my network know that 600 people, wonderful individuals and professionals were laid off. And the comments on that post were from competitors, were [00:32:00] from industry analysts.

[00:32:02] Eugina Jordan: and my executive women network because they knew me as a human and humans want to help other humans. So competitors, they set up task forces. So all I was doing for the three weeks after the layoff is reposting jobs and connecting individuals. So networking to me is helping. Community to me is giving first.

[00:32:33] Eugina Jordan: Personal brand. is to use it for good, educate or help. And if, like you were saying, women would do it differently and giving yourself permission to network your way, like Burger King says, network your way, build your personal brand your way, and do what you're authentically, what authentically feels right to [00:33:00] you.

[00:33:01] Loree Philip: Mmm. I like that you brought in personal brand because I think We can often feel like if we're, if we're putting ourselves out there, it can feel vulnerable and, creating it in such a way where you don't feel like, okay, I'm, this is my personal brand of me being awesome. I love this idea of creating your brand around supporting others and being helpful and showcasing your, your organization and.

[00:33:32] Loree Philip: Doing things like we go back to that you feel good about doing and not doing it so much because you feel like I need to post something about me being smart or having, I don't have anything to say that kind of thing, all of a sudden that goes out the window when your objective is in, in a supportive service oriented approach.

[00:33:56] Loree Philip: I hadn't thought about it that way before, and I appreciate that [00:34:00] perspective, Eugenia.

[00:34:01] Eugina Jordan: Of course, I'm, and it's, we all as women that's where imposter creeps in as well. We feel that everything that is, I want to post. Already been said before, but you have your own perspective as an individual.

[00:34:21] Eugina Jordan: You have your own thoughts. You have your own experiences and many people out there want to hear it. They. want to learn, they want to get inspired and realizing that you matter, your opinion matters, your expertise matters, and sharing that as a service will help women overcome that, Oh, I might not be smart enough, or I might, I might not have anything to say.

[00:34:51] Eugina Jordan: You do.

[00:34:53] Loree Philip: I thank you for that, Eugenia, it's so powerful and as we start to close out the [00:35:00] conversation, I'd love to get your thoughts speaking to women listeners, underrepresented people, navigating this workplace that was not designed for them if you could give them a little pep talk, as we wrap up here, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

[00:35:19] Eugina Jordan: So there's a question in my book, and I always ask myself that question, and I want to ask you ladies the same question when there is a new project, when you want to post. Something when you want to ask for a sponsor, I asked myself, why not me? And I want to ask you that question as well. Why not you? You are smart.

[00:35:48] Eugina Jordan: You're hardworking. You deserve to realize your full potential. You can learn. So why not you? Why not you get that promotion? [00:36:00] Why not you? Build that personal brand. Why not you talk about those accomplishments? So when you ask that question yourself, it's a rhetorical question, there's no answer. Because if you start saying, oh, because I'm not this, or not that, then you need to start reframing, because you are that, and you are all that, and even more.

[00:36:26] Loree Philip: Oh, Yejida, I could talk to you for hours, but we have to wrap up. Thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I know somebody needed to hear it and that is the power of being a little bit vulnerable, putting yourself out there because you can help other people with your perspective and your story and your experience and each person has so much to offer.

[00:36:51] Loree Philip: Eugenia, where can we connect with you, learn more about your book or anything else that you have going on?

[00:36:56] Eugina Jordan: Thank you. I have a website, [00:37:00] eugeniajordan. com. There's a newsletter. You can sign up for the newsletter. You can learn a little bit more about my book and what I do. I'm also on all the platforms.

[00:37:12] Eugina Jordan: So if LinkedIn is your jam, find me on there. If Instagram is your gem, I'm on there. Facebook, Twitter, I'm on there. So it's the newsletter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, platform of your choice. And I'm on Amazon. The book was on Amazon. And for every book that is being purchased, I donate a copy to a nonprofit or an organization that empowers people like me to become.

[00:37:47] Eugina Jordan: leaders. So by purchasing a book, you're contributing to the mission of changing the face of leadership.

[00:37:55] Loree Philip: Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you so much, Eugenia. I really appreciate your [00:38:00] experience, your perspective, and so, so much wisdom today. Thank you. Thank you for

[00:38:06] Eugina Jordan: having me.

[00:38:07] Loree Philip: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you've enjoyed it, I would love for you to subscribe. If you're already a subscriber, don't forget to share the podcast with a friend. Hope you all have an amazing week. Until next time. Bye.