#40 – Letting Go of Limitations: 5 Surprising Career Rules You Should Break | Empowerment & Career Advice

[00:00:00] Loree Philip: Hi, and welcome to the daring to leap podcast. I'm your host, Loree Philip. I'm so excited to dive into this week's episode with you. What if some of the conventional career rules that we are following are just holding us back from our potential. This week, we're having a little fun and breaking some rules with Erin Keating. Podcast host and award-winning television executive. Tune in to learn five career rules that you should break so that you can let go of the limitations that are holding you back in your career. Let's dive in.

[00:00:38] Loree Philip: We have a special guest on the podcast today. Erin Keating is here. Erin is the host of the hotter than ever podcast, where she interviews inspiring women over 40 about how they broke the unconscious rules they'd been following and reshaped the second act of their lives for the better taking on topics from career and [00:01:00] ambition to love, sex, relationships, aging, and more.

[00:01:04] Loree Philip: Erin is also award winning. television development and production executive. Her career has included senior creative roles at Snapchat, Big Beach TV, IFC TV, and Magna Global Entertainment. Welcome to the podcast, Erin. Thank

[00:01:23] Erin Keating: you so much, Laurie. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:26] Loree Philip: Yes, I'm so happy that you're here.

[00:01:29] Loree Philip: And I have so, so, so much to talk to you about today. And we're, I really wanted to get started. started with is you've had this beautiful career in entertainment and I'm curious what really made you decide you're on your career journey, what made you decide to leave that and go at it on your own?

[00:01:51] Erin Keating: It's a great question. And I'm not sure I've totally left it yet. Right. So, so my story is that I [00:02:00] started as a writer performer. I thought I was going to be an actor. Turned out I was really naturally a producer. I was producing everything that I was involved with. And then I was like, is this a job? And so my first job in TV was at Comedy Central in New York as the assistant to the general manager where I really learned my kind of, it was kind of my grad school in TV, like how it all works.

[00:02:22] Erin Keating: And I came up through cable in New York and when I learned what, television development was, I was like, that's the job for me. When I read the job description of executive producer, I was like, Oh, that's definitely me. That's the lead creative that sits between the show and the buyer. And so in my career, I've gone back and forth between being an EP and also then sitting on the buy side being the person who sort of hears pitches, helps shape shows and gets things on the air for different platforms.

[00:02:52] Erin Keating: Most recently, six years at Snapchat. Which was a wild ride through the ICO and all of [00:03:00] the, the sort of world of tech and social media where I was really innovating, making shows for mobile. So learning how to make short form script, mainly scripted is really my expertise, but I've done every genre.

[00:03:13] Erin Keating: Scripted shows for Gen Z on their phones. And so that as, as the tech industry has contracted in the last couple of years, there were massive layoffs everywhere. Excuse me. I got hit by that. I got the entire originals team and Snapchat got laid off. And at the same time, personal changes were happening in my life.

[00:03:35] Erin Keating: I had been married for a long time. I am now divorced. And I. I really took that as a moment to reset, to sort of say, let me think, just, let me just hit the pause button for a second. I've been going, going, going in this career for 20 years. I have been having ever more senior [00:04:00] positions I'm having ever more financial success, but also responsibility and also stress.

[00:04:07] Erin Keating: And what I realized was I needed to think about what my purpose was. And, and what the best use of me is in the world. And I really needed to reclaim my voice. I really needed to start re investigating what it is that I have to say in the world and what I can contribute, that really only I can contribute.

[00:04:31] Erin Keating: I think everybody has the things that only they can do. And there are a lot of people who can be excellent executives in the media business. I am one of them. There are also a lot of other people, but are there, are there other people out there who want to talk about what it is to reinvent your life midstream to sort of ask yourself, what am I doing in every area of my life?

[00:04:57] Erin Keating: Where am I telling the truth and where am I lying to [00:05:00] myself? Where am I living out old stories, old dreams, old goals that maybe need to be refreshed. And that's where I've been at. So I've been using Hotter Than Ever my podcast as a means towards opening up that conversation for other women and some men who have tuned in and, and said that they resonate with the themes as well.

[00:05:23] Erin Keating: To, to talk about. How do we uncover these unconscious rules we've been following? How do we break the ones that aren't working? And how do we find a new path to being freer, more self expressed, more successful, happier, have more love, have more joy, have more freedom? That's what I'm looking for in life.

[00:05:47] Erin Keating: Because I found that having it all in quotes wasn't really real for me from the outside, my life looked impeccable, marriage, twins, [00:06:00] great career great position in the world, making money, all those things. But I was so burnt out. And I was grinding so hard. And I was trying so hard to get the approval of people who ultimately I care more about my own approval than I do the approval of whatever media industry, corporate bosses, whatever, whatever and I found that I was licensing my voice, which is precious to to serve a business that wasn't my business.

[00:06:37] Erin Keating: And that is what you do. In a, in a professional career, I just happen to be really good at evangelizing. And so I, I drank the Kool Aid and I had a lot of other people drink the Kool Aid on what my mission was at Snap and I believed in it and we were incredibly successful at it. When that tide turned, I realized like, what else can I use that voice for?[00:07:00]

[00:07:00] Erin Keating: What else? What else am I here to do in the world? And that's the inquiry I've been in.

[00:07:06] Loree Philip: That's so powerful, Erin. I, I just love that journey that you're on, and I resonate with it so much having been on my own similar journey of trying to figure out. My voice and where I fit in and also taking back that power from an organization and wanting to put it forward for myself and support others.

[00:07:28] Loree Philip: I'm curious in, in this happens quite a lot when I'm talking with various people about these shifts in their lives where something happens. And in this case, it's everybody in that organization at snap was laid off. And then at that point. We get to take that moment and you decided to reset, but very easily you could have just said, okay, I'm going to go find something else to do in the industry.

[00:07:57] Loree Philip: I have a great resume. I have [00:08:00] connections. I could just go find something else. So what was it at that point in time? Do you think that helped you find the courage to take that step back? Because when you were talking about really looking at everything Sometimes that looking at things is kind of hard to do, right?

[00:08:20] Loree Philip: It's yeah, it's easier just to move forward than really take a clean look at

[00:08:24] Erin Keating: yourself. Yeah, it's a great question. I think one thing that happened was I got COVID and I got very, very sick. And I went to the hospital. And while I was lucky enough to get out in 48 hours I had a moment of epiphany in the, I almost want to call it a hotel room, but it was like a private room that was just me.

[00:08:46] Erin Keating: And I found myself feeling like I was at a spa. And I was like, this is wrong. This is not a spa. This is UCLA hospital. And I am real, real sick or I wouldn't be here. [00:09:00] And I just had an epiphany that you get one life, you just get one life. And I'm smack in the middle of it, given the fact that we all are going to live longer.

[00:09:11] Erin Keating: This second act, especially for women, Who are the first generation, I'm 52, I'm about to be 52. We're the first generation of women who kind of really claimed the mantle of having it all. And so now, okay, so I had this big career. I had the marriage that was supposed to be a certain way.

[00:09:31] Erin Keating: I have the kids I wanted to have. Those were all dreams from my 20s. And I thought to myself, Okay this is just a, this is an organic moment for me to reassess and ask myself is this the life I want? And it certainly was the manifestation of all my dreams as a young woman but it isn't, it wasn't the manifestation of.

[00:09:54] Erin Keating: My dreams today. And so because I now know I now have the [00:10:00] confidence of a track record of success where I can go, Well, I set out about to do that. And I did it. I set out to do that other things thing. And I did it. Oh, I wanted this. And I overcame that obstacle. And I got that thing. And so I now sort of trust you.

[00:10:17] Erin Keating: That whatever I put my attention to, whatever I put my focus on, that I can build and grow and evolve. And so, did I want to go and do the same thing again at another place? I'm restless. I'm intellectually curious. I want to be vulnerable. I want to be open. And also, I hit a place in my career where Anything higher than the position that I was in I was not going to get to play with the toys anymore so I think of the team making TV shows or making media and getting my My hands in it and working with creatives and developing an idea and shaping something and all those amazing incremental decisions that lead to something [00:11:00] excellent when you get into the senior, senior management level when you're VP, EVP, depending on what kind of corporate structure you're in, media, tech, whatever, they all have kind of different ways of describing what the roles are.

[00:11:15] Erin Keating: But I just felt like if I, if I sat in my boss's seat. I'd be doing a job I didn't want to do because I'd be doing politics and managing up and I hate that shit.

[00:11:26] Erin Keating: That's not what I'm in it for. I came into television as an artist. So I really felt like, how do I, how do I do more of that now? How do I do more of the creative piece of it? The self expression piece of it? How do I do this magical thing of connecting with people, which was part of my job? Always, in television development, you have these incredible first meetings where you really dive deep into who someone is and what their story is and what the potential is for the projects.

[00:11:58] Erin Keating: And then you spend two years trying to get [00:12:00] something on the air. Well, having a podcast and interviewing people is just the best part of that process where you really jump right in. Yeah. Jump in and mine it and, and connect and get deep and and then you don't have to fight. The powers that be to manifest your thing so I don't see podcasting is the end game for me.

[00:12:23] Erin Keating: I saw it as the lowest hanging fruit towards developing my voice building a business and. Really taking some time to figure out. Okay, let me shape that voice. Let me shape that vision and then figure out what else hotter than ever can be. Because I think it can be a media brand. I think there can be products.

[00:12:44] Erin Keating: I think the audience of women over 40 who are looking to be inspired and empowered is really huge. And I think that, I think there's, there's a sense of play that's missing from the way that people [00:13:00] are talking to women over 40. Everything gets a little grim and, and I don't know. I feel like I'm, I look, I'm happier, sexier, more empowered, more joyful than I've ever been in my entire life.

[00:13:14] Erin Keating: I don't see that reflected out there. And I think there's room in the market for for that brand.

[00:13:21] Loree Philip: Yeah, I do feel looking at it and I just turned 40. So we were talking about this before stepping into that phase. Congratulations.

[00:13:30] Erin Keating: Your forties are going to be amazing.

[00:13:32] Loree Philip: I, I, I feel that I really do feel that it feels so serious.

[00:13:37] Loree Philip: The, the culture, or just like what's getting put in front of women at, at this age and when, especially when you talk about career, it's all buttoned up I think you're right. I feel like it's missing fun.

[00:13:49] Loree Philip: I feel like it's missing heart and missing a spark. Yep. And, and I think that's what I want to talk to you next about because I really, really love this idea of [00:14:00] finding the courage to break the rules. Yes. And, and that sounds fun to me.

[00:14:05] Erin Keating: I don't know about you. It's fun to break the rules. Yeah. I was a rebellious teenager.

[00:14:10] Erin Keating: I, I traveled the world in my 20s and did whatever I wanted. Like I want to reconnect with that person who was just authentically living her life before I needed to make my decision. Make money and to raise my children and yeah, okay, so here's some unconscious rules to break at work.

[00:14:26] Erin Keating: So I always thought that I needed to be like the most buttoned up person who ever lived, right? Eyes dotted, T's crossed, every presentation absolutely perfect air air tight, like preparation and responses to every question. All that stuff is really important. It's really important to be polished and have a presentation that has been thoughtfully put together and to communicate your ideas in a really clear and compelling way.

[00:14:58] Erin Keating: However, a little [00:15:00] imperfection. And a little humanity goes a long way. So if you can joke about your anything in a meeting to break the ice, if you can share something personal that's still within the bounds of appropriate I think that's an opportunity to connect on a different level and to get the whoever your intended audience's attention in a, in an awake kind of way, not in a, I think we get into these ruts in the office of like how things are done and how you present to clients and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, how you make your case.

[00:15:38] Erin Keating: And I just think anytime you can bring more of yourself. To the party, you're, you're perfectly imperfect self to the party, the more compelling and fun and engaging. It's going to be for everyone.

[00:15:52] Loree Philip: Yeah. And this, this I think is so spot on. And I feel like we're in [00:16:00] the age of authenticity where we went through this phase, especially in.

[00:16:06] Loree Philip: Big corporations and everything where everything you said was true. You had to be so super polished. This is the way it was done This is the culture You know presentations were scripted and what was missing was You know being able to really connect on a deep level with people. Yeah, and that's That right now is gold because we've over rotated on the other side We're trying to rotate back but culture is so hard to change.

[00:16:38] Loree Philip: It takes a long time. Yeah, and That person and we talked a little bit about this that like buttoned up person is also Trying to be someone she's not and it's constricting her in so many ways including creativity Including, you know coming up with those great ideas And so [00:17:00] I really love that one as the first rule like bring and it doesn't have to be everything But there are moments you can bring in

[00:17:08] Erin Keating: That spark.

[00:17:09] Erin Keating: Yeah Yeah, being a human being in a context where maybe maybe they're expecting a corporate something and you show up as just a three dimensional human. I think that could be really disarming and powerful. I also thought that I had to do everything on my own. I thought that I had to go off into my little office.

[00:17:29] Erin Keating: Although we didn't have an office, we had an open plan, which is a nightmare. But go off into my space, make my perfect thing, come back out and present it. And what I learned through amazing colleagues in my professional life. Is it's so much more fun, especially if you are a person who is social and who thrives and generates ideas in conversation.

[00:17:57] Erin Keating: If you're a verbal learner and thinker [00:18:00] working with a colleague to brainstorm or even just like I have my last boss used to call me and be like, Can I just talk? Can I just have your ear for a second? Can I talk this through with you? Because she would have a big thing that she needed to do. And she wanted to make sure that I had a perspective, I had a perspective on it and I was going to give her the real, real.

[00:18:18] Erin Keating: And so it really built incredible trust between. me and my boss or me and my colleague who I would brainstorm things together, create documents together, sit with each other in a conference room, throw things on the whiteboard together. I just think we underestimate How powerful that is for the team building part of your career and building your relationships in a real human way where you're like, Hey, you're really good at this.

[00:18:47] Erin Keating: Can I, can I grab you to run something past you? Can I, can I share this thing with you? It's a work in progress. It's a bit of a mess, but you'll get the idea. I think that that thinking you have to do it [00:19:00] alone. You can let go of that You're going to have a lot more fun.

[00:19:03] Loree Philip: Yeah. I, I found this to be, I was the same way to be honest.

[00:19:08] Loree Philip: I thought that it wasn't so much that I felt like I had to do it on my own. I also had, I just had a hesitation to ask for help and, and I I had this. Projection on other people that they were too busy. They had things to do. I should just take care of my side of the make it as, as perfect as I could with on my own.

[00:19:30] Loree Philip: But the truth is that at the end of the day, your idea, your product, your whatever you're creating is going to be so much better when you have that collaboration. And I, I think that's why this conversation right now on remote work, virtual work, and a lot of senior leaders are wanting their teams to come back in and, and I feel for both sides because I feel like [00:20:00] I enjoy being virtual and I have family to take care of and I have things to do.

[00:20:04] Loree Philip: So it is a little flexibility, but at the same time. There is magic that is created when you are interacting with another human face to face and that is so hard to replicate virtually. Yeah. And so, if you can crack that code, that's, that's, that's a big one. Well, I

[00:20:23] Erin Keating: worked out of my bedroom for two years during COVID and, and I think, I think you really can connect over Zoom.

[00:20:31] Erin Keating: I think you really can I think if you're willing to loosen up a little bit. You can, you can make those relationships stronger in, in virtual or remote work. But no, there's no, there's no replacing Hey, let's go grab lunch and talk this through. Or I had a boss who would always be like, let's walk.

[00:20:52] Erin Keating: He would say, let's get a cup of coffee and then let's walk because we were always sitting. So we walk the campus and some of our best [00:21:00] conversations came through that. Where we were just moving and riffing and and we came up with good ideas together in that way. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's a real balance because obviously remote work has been liberating, especially for moms.

[00:21:16] Erin Keating: Where we don't have to make excuses for going to bed. Take our kid to Little League because it's only going to take a certain amount of your day if your, if your circumference is small enough. It's just the commute that messes us up and adds this wasted time to our days. Which doesn't have to be wasted.

[00:21:31] Erin Keating: You can always listen to podcasts.

[00:21:32] Loree Philip: Listen to our podcast.

[00:21:34] Erin Keating: Exactly. Shameless plug. Can I give you another one?

[00:21:38] Loree Philip: Absolutely. What's number three? Okay.

[00:21:40] Erin Keating: So I think out of fear, I for many years took on the role of being someone's right hand. Or being kind of like the power behind the throne. And I thought that that was going to make me feel safer and less vulnerable.

[00:21:58] Erin Keating: But what [00:22:00] it did was it made me a reflection. Of that person whose right hand I was and I would watch them get the glory and then secretly feel like, well, I did so much of that work. Like it's not like they weren't trying to give me credit, but like their role was such that they were more public facing.

[00:22:20] Erin Keating: And what I realized was that I was hiding because. I didn't want to be open to scrutiny. I didn't want to be criticized. I wanted to sort of feel safe. That safety is an illusion. It's just a job. Even if it's a career that's meaningful to you, why hold yourself back? From the growth that comes from stepping out front.

[00:22:47] Erin Keating: So what happened with me was I was always someone's right hand and then I stepped into this role at snap and I really had to step up and show up in [00:23:00] a way that allowed me to sort of understand like who I was as a worker, as a leader, as a employee, as a contributor to the group in a leadership role, like I would never have.

[00:23:14] Erin Keating: Learned myself as a leader. I have, I would never have gained the leadership and, and coaching and guidance skills that I learned if I had not stepped out from behind somebody else. And I realized that I really liked speaking in my own voice. And, and not being in the shadows. Now, when I was a new mom and I had twins and I was overwhelmed at home, I was really grateful to be behind somebody.

[00:23:43] Erin Keating: So that they could be a buffer when my life was just over full with responsibility. But as my parenting sort of settled into a groove and my kids are now 12 I have twins then I, I really had more bandwidth. [00:24:00] To, to step forward at work, and I'm so grateful for that because I don't think I would have, I gained so much confidence as a result of, of pushing myself out from behind somebody.

[00:24:11] Erin Keating: Hmm.

[00:24:13] Loree Philip: I resonate with this so much, Aaron because I had a similar situation in corporate being kind of a really strong behind the scenes type of contributor. And I, and I loved it, I think because of that safety of that comfort of that fear of being seen. And what's interesting is when you said you felt more confident and what I found To be true for myself is that when you take the time to become your own person and get to know how you are as a leader in your case would be in that, that front facing role, your connection to yourself becomes stronger.

[00:24:59] Loree Philip: You [00:25:00] know who you are, you know your voice, you know what, how you would want. To handle this or that and you've done it. You have that experience doing it. And that's when that confidence comes out you instead of just, and I'm not saying just because there is a time and place to be a really strong second right hand person.

[00:25:22] Loree Philip: But You're, you don't get a lot of free thinking for yourself and experience doing that, being in the front. Right. And some

[00:25:30] Erin Keating: people like that is the perfect role for them. For me, I knew I was hiding. Yeah. I knew I was meant to be out front. And, and so maybe that's my like acting having been an actor as a young person, like I just I wanted, I wanted to use my voice and eventually I had to figure out how to do that.

[00:25:49] Erin Keating: And it was so worth the risk. So worth the risk because I felt more fully myself and more self expressed and and also I gave myself more grace you know [00:26:00] where the whole process of Developing your confidence and not feeling like you have to be perfect all the time Like that is such a big deal for me that came in my 40s I came in my 40s.

[00:26:11] Erin Keating: It really showed up for me in my 40s. Whereas some people have it out of the gate and just go gangbusters into everything with full confidence for me. And I think a lot of women, we feel like we have to have the answer before we Before we've even really thoroughly investigated the question, like for me, I thought I had to read before I went to first grade.

[00:26:32] Erin Keating: I told my mom I couldn't go to first grade because I didn't know how to read. And she's honey, they teach you how to read in first grade.

[00:26:39] Erin Keating: And I was like, Oh, okay, I guess, I guess they'll let me in then. I mean, that's definitely, I think a lot of women probably relate to that, this sort of sense of I'm not legitimate unless I've thoroughly mastered this thing that's new to me.

[00:26:53] Loree Philip: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's so much in the experiential learning that it doesn't, [00:27:00] it almost doesn't matter if you've done a similar role at a different company or group, it's still going to be so new and, and you're still going to have to figure it out.

[00:27:10] Loree Philip: And, and so but you're right. It's, it's that hesitation of, I don't have the exact. experience, and so I feel like should I do it? And I don't

[00:27:23] Erin Keating: see that as much with men. Men definitely, in my experience, show up with a Oh yeah, I can figure that out. As opposed to I haven't, I haven't taken all the tests and gotten all A's and, and proved myself, i, I think, I think we could stand to be a little bit more ballsy. We could stand to be a little bit more confident in the abstract, confident in ourselves, in the, in the idea that like, yeah, we're capable, competent human beings. Like we will figure it out. Even if we've never done the letter exactly the thing to the letter.

[00:27:59] Loree Philip: Yeah.[00:28:00] I, I like to come back to what you were talking about earlier when you were describing kind of going out on your own and you had this experience of I've overcome this challenge, I've built this, I've created that in other settings. And I think that's where we can start. As women and as people, when we're about to start something new, remember all of the things that we've accomplished and all the things that we, that came up.

[00:28:31] Loree Philip: I mean, nothing is really ever smooth, right? There are challenges we have overcome successfully. And when you can root yourself in that and say, okay, I was able to do that here. I can also do it again. Right?

[00:28:48] Erin Keating: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:28:50] Loree Philip: So tell me about your fourth rule. Okay. My fourth rule. That you broke.

[00:28:55] Loree Philip: Yeah.

[00:28:56] Erin Keating: I felt like unless [00:29:00] I looked a certain way and my body was a certain way that I was never going to be successful. I had this unwritten rule in my head that like successful people aren't overweight. Successful people look they, they fit a certain mold. And for me, I've always carried some extra pounds and it's, it's probably more the weight probably lives more in my head than it does in on my body or in the way that people perceive me.

[00:29:30] Erin Keating: But I really felt like I lived in New York for a really long time and I thought, well, I can't move to Los Angeles and be in show business unless I'm skinny. Which is just a whole bunch of cultural programming and family values and all these things that are simply not true. And well, while there are some disturbing statistics about people with certain new body fat ratios or whatever and, and appearance being promoted more frequently or in more senior management positions.

[00:29:59] Erin Keating: [00:30:00] I think that that I think that is changing and I think it's an inside job. It's an inside job. If you change your mind. about that rule. If you decide, you know what? I'm great as I am. I'm going to show up. I'm going to look awesome. I'm going to look like myself. I'm going to, I'm going to show up. Unique and perfectly imperfect nobody else is thinking about that stuff in the way that you are.

[00:30:29] Erin Keating: Nobody else is obsessed with your, how your stomach sticks out or not. You know what I mean? I mean, for me, I got very hung up on and very I, I just really believe that show business was not for me unless I looked. Like a show business person, which in my mind was a movie star, which is nonsense.

[00:30:51] Erin Keating: It's just complete nonsense and not required for the role that I've ever played in my professional life.

[00:30:57] Loree Philip: That is so interesting, Aaron, because what I thought [00:31:00] about was not just this rule, but all the rules and stories we create in our mind that aren't true. Right. That, that hold us back and it could be that there's a reason why you feel that way, obviously media entertainment, Hollywood portrays a certain image and that kind of translated into your head as a specific look that you needed to have, but no matter where we are in each industry, we have these rules, these assumptions that we've created.

[00:31:38] Loree Philip: That Yeah. Are worth testing out. Yeah. Is it true? Could I be successful? Is it a hard and fast rule? And, and most are not, most of the time it's not.

[00:31:48] Erin Keating: Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Most are not. And, and most of the time the things you're worried about, about yourself, no one else is thinking about. Mm-hmm. they're thinking about themselves, and their careers actually.

[00:31:58] Erin Keating: I know. And their [00:32:00] ambition they're really not thinking that, that carefully about you, .

[00:32:03] Loree Philip: I know, I, I think about this. Not frequently, but enough where I'm whenever I get self conscious or I'm like, I shouldn't do this or put this out there I'm like, you know what most people aren't even thinking about me

[00:32:15] Erin Keating: No, I always used to say to artists who would who would come in and be worried about whatever whatever in their careers you know pitching a TV show and maybe it was Maybe it was too soon for them or maybe maybe they were worried and self conscious about Oh, if I do this, then this will happen.

[00:32:32] Erin Keating: And I just was like, no one cares about what you're doing. And I don't say that in a mean way, like nobody cares until you're successful. Nobody cares until you have a thing that people care about, go and do your work, go and develop yourself, go and develop your voice, make your, write your scripts and develop your short film and, and do all the things.

[00:32:54] Erin Keating: And when you are undeniable, people will notice. But in the meantime, no one cares [00:33:00] and that's how I feel about my podcast. It's well, I'm just going to do it the way that I think makes sense and, and what I believe in and I'm going to make a high quality product because that's my business is making media and I'm going to follow my muse and my own curiosity and when it's inevitable, it will show up on everyone's radar.

[00:33:21] Erin Keating: But until then, I'm just going to work on my credibility. I think, I think an artist's life, and I think this is probably true in professional life of all kinds, is half visibility, having a profile and people knowing who you are, and half credibility. Showing up and doing the work, doing a great job.

[00:33:41] Erin Keating: And when you're not working on your credibility, you can be working on your visibility. And when you're not working on your visibility, you can be working on your credibility. And like it is a pendulum swinging back and forth, but you never don't have something to do. Mm hmm.

[00:33:55] Loree Philip: Yes. That's, that's great. I feel this similar about my podcast, [00:34:00] but at the beginning, I didn't know, I didn't realize all the wisdom you just shared, right?

[00:34:07] Loree Philip: And you think, okay, I was worried to put it out. I'm like, how many people are really going to listen to my first episode when I put it out? Right. You know what I mean? Right. And I, in my mind, it was like. the world and putting it out to the world that I really wasn't.

[00:34:20] Erin Keating: Right, exactly. I mean, I sent an email out announcing my podcast to my whole professional community, everyone I've ever met in my professional life, and I was like, okay, this is a right turn what am I going to post on LinkedIn?

[00:34:31] Erin Keating: You figure it out, you figure out how you're going to talk about yourself and how you're going to frame what you're doing next. I think that leads me into the last thing I wanted to share, which is this unconscious rule that it's too late to change that it's, that it's, you've invested so much and you've got to stay the course for me, that would have looked like.

[00:34:51] Erin Keating: Climbing the corporate ladder, moving to another media company, continuing to buy television shows on [00:35:00] behalf of a platform and a brand and an audience that we were trying to reach. And something in me was like, Mm, I've got probably 20 or 30 more years of productive life left. I think I want to grow.

[00:35:16] Erin Keating: I think I want to stretch. I think I want to change. I'm not leaving any of this behind I'm still take on consulting projects and do stuff like that. I love making things with people. But I just don't want that to be my entire life. And I don't want to sit in a corporate structure that. That wants to control my time and, and so I really, I really had to give myself permission to jump and say, you know what, it's not too late to change.

[00:35:46] Erin Keating: I have a great role model in my mother who went back to school to become an occupational therapist when she was 48. She had always worked in HR and corporate training and every time there was a recession she would get laid off. And she looked up what are the [00:36:00] jobs that are most in demand. And what does it look like for the next 30 years?

[00:36:04] Erin Keating: How do I stay employed until I don't want to be employed anymore? And for her, it was going back and getting another degree at 48. And I think like that as a point of inspiration for me where it's actually it can change. Actually I'm not leaving any of the skills or expertise that I have cultivated behind.

[00:36:25] Erin Keating: I'm just applying them to something new and it's something I can't ever get laid off from. And that's what's the most exciting thing. You build your own thing which is terrifying. It is. It's really scary. It's really vulnerable and it's I've been a person who's chosen a paycheck and direct deposit for 20 years that's scary.

[00:36:46] Erin Keating: That's scary. But I'm leaning into, to faith and I am leaning into confidence and I'm leaning into authenticity and I know that at the end of the day, those are the things [00:37:00] that are going to lead me to the next big win.

[00:37:02] Loree Philip: Mm. I love that. We're going to close with that, Aaron. Before we close out for the day, any last closing thoughts to the audience on breaking rules and shifting into their life after 40?

[00:37:18] Erin Keating: Yeah, I would say spend some time with yourself asking, are there any rules that I'm following that I don't... One that aren't serving me is there a nagging little wish in the back of my head that says oh This could be different. This could be better I have a vision or I have an inkling or I have a dream about something stop pushing that down Let yourself actually experience that and feel that and also if you're feeling like this job is misery, but I feel like I have to have it because it's what I've decided, ask yourself what's on the other side of having something else.

[00:37:57] Erin Keating: What, what can you envision that's positive on the [00:38:00] other side? Transition is hard. Transition is uncomfortable, but change is good, especially if it's coming from an authentically motivated place.

[00:38:11] Loree Philip: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Could you share with the audience? It's where they can reach you, connect with you, see your

[00:38:19] Erin Keating: work.

[00:38:19] Erin Keating: Absolutely. So Hotter Than Ever is available everywhere you listen to podcasts, so please find the show and follow it. I'm on Instagram at hotter than ever pod. That's probably the best way to reach out if you want to DM me the show. I post a lot of clips and audiograms and all kinds of things, so you get a taste for it.

[00:38:41] Erin Keating: But yeah, please go listen to it. Let me know what you think. Bye. Bye.

[00:38:45] Loree Philip: Great. Thanks so much, Erin. I really appreciate your time and your wisdom today.

[00:38:51] Erin Keating: Thank you, Laurie. I love being here. And and best of luck with everything. I know you're on the move.

[00:38:56] Loree Philip: On the move. Onward and upward, right? Absolutely.

[00:38:59] Erin Keating: [00:39:00] Absolutely. Thanks. Take care.

[00:39:02] Loree Philip: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you've enjoyed it, I would love for you to subscribe. If you're already a subscriber, don't forget to share the podcast with a friend. Hope you all have an amazing week. Until next time. Bye.